Have some questions? Want answers? Got some good tips? This is the place to ask, or answer, questions regarding art tools, and methods.

Moderators: Ambiguity, SeaQuenchal, virtueone

 

Postby LK Crown » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:54 pm

User avatar
  LK Crown
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:22 pm

Subject title: How to make a Good Composition for this?

Can you come up
or tell me how to come up
with a good composition for this one?

The idea for the piece:
a guy is sitting in a dark room on a computer and the room is only lit by the screen
and in the background you see the unorderly room with boxes of pizza on the ground etc., maybe a sofa and or a bookshelf on the wall behind.

here some sketches, how would it be better?

comp.jpg

 

Postby Audiazif » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:24 pm

User avatar
  Audiazif
Posts: 892
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:38 am

Play with camera angles. The first and second thumbnail are basically the same but mirrored and the third is a less closeup shot of the second. Also they are all with a flat camera angle, in front of the subject(s). Try having the "camera" in other places around the space and try different angles (bird's eye, worm's eye, etc.). Another thing to think about in composition is the placement of values. A good value read in a thumbnail can translate to a good value read at full size. Also value is very effective at leading the eye. Try to play with contrast to lead the eye where you want the viewer to look.
"Painting is edge hell!"

Deviantart
Sketchbook

 

Postby LK Crown » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:35 pm

User avatar
  LK Crown
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:22 pm

Audiazif wrote:Try to play with contrast to lead the eye where you want the viewer to look.


Where should I possibly want the viewer to look and why?
I want them to see the whole picture, not a particular detail, i guess.

Or should I make up a hierarchy like:
first the viewer shall look at the face of the person
second the eye shall wander to the computer-screen
and then it shall wander to the pizza boxes in the background

why would the order be important?

how do I know if the hierarchy is good?

 

Postby LK Crown » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:44 pm

User avatar
  LK Crown
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:22 pm

man, i am so bad in coming up with thumbnails :D

IMG_20181020_234149.jpg

 

Postby fi_le » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:20 am

User avatar
  fi_le
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:15 pm

Same here!
...you see, it's supposed to be fi_le like the file from the computer... the one where you put the data things in.

my sketchbook on here and my Instagram

 

Postby LK Crown » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:47 pm

User avatar
  LK Crown
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:22 pm

Can anybody tell me how to convey what I want to convey?

It shall be a guy sitting in front of his computer drawing on his graphic tablet.
He is relatively `normal` but just the camera angle and style how he is drawn shall make him/it look a bit crazy.
for example with a distorted camera view where one of his eyes is bigger because fish-eye-lense or how its called.

I dont get good looking thumbnails..

thumbnails.jpeg

 

Postby svarn » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:13 pm

User avatar
  svarn
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:37 am

Unfortunately I don't think there is much that we can say to suddenly enable you to draw this. If I understand correctly what you've been describing, then that's a pretty difficult illustration to pull off.
You either know the composition and perspective well enough to do this, or you don't.
One thing I'd say is that you need to put way more effort into your thumbnails. The thumbnails that you've posted, seem to have been abandoned before you even got to the stage at which you'd try to solve any issues they have. And if you want to do a fish-eye lens or some other crazy perspective, then I'd recommend that you start off with creating a perspective mesh for it. As trying to freehand it without having any experience is just not gonna work.

I've tried making 2 thumbnails for this, but I'm not sure if it was a good idea, since it's supposed to be your drawing. So I'll put it in spoilers.

 

Postby LK Crown » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:21 pm

User avatar
  LK Crown
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:22 pm

svarn wrote:Unfortunately I don't think there is much that we can say to suddenly enable you to draw this. If I understand correctly what you've been describing, then that's a pretty difficult illustration to pull off.
You either know the composition and perspective well enough to do this, or you don't.
One thing I'd say is that you need to put way more effort into your thumbnails. The thumbnails that you've posted, seem to have been abandoned before you even got to the stage at which you'd try to solve any issues they have. And if you want to do a fish-eye lens or some other crazy perspective, then I'd recommend that you start off with creating a perspective mesh for it. As trying to freehand it without having any experience is just not gonna work.

I've tried making 2 thumbnails for this, but I'm not sure if it was a good idea, since it's supposed to be your drawing. So I'll put it in spoilers.


Very cool!

What is the best source to learn how to set up perspective grids and especially where to set the flight points. Thats one problem for me here, where to put them, how much of the wall in the back should I show etc. Just setting up the whole room `technically`, step-by-step, instead of making a sketch from feeling.

 

Postby svarn » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:19 pm

User avatar
  svarn
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:37 am

Not sure about sources, I've learnt most of the perspective from my dad and when I was studying architecture.
I've never really studied the warped perspectives, as I don't really have use for them. But I think it's just much easier to pick up, once you have a solid grasp on the normal perspective.

So normally you'd want your vanising points far far off the canvas. But the closer together you push them, the more distorted image you'll get. Which is something you want in this case. For a thumbnail, doing a quick freehand mesh is totally fine, it's there just as a guide. And of course the lines will turn into arcs instead of beeing stright.
As for the "correctness" of things, like "how far in the back should the wall be" etc. In a warped image like this, you can probably get away with murder.
You could construct it properly, once you have a composition done.

Here's an example of a quick mesh. I've used a similar one for the 2nd thumb.

Image

 

Postby Ambiguity » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:58 pm

User avatar
  Ambiguity
Posts: 5511
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 7:55 am
Location: Your dreams

@azarga: Did you mean to post that here? Doesn't have anything to do with the topic so I'm going to delete it unless there is a good reason for it.

LK Crown wrote:What is the best source to learn how to set up perspective grids and especially where to set the flight points. Thats one problem for me here, where to put them, how much of the wall in the back should I show etc. Just setting up the whole room `technically`, step-by-step, instead of making a sketch from feeling.

There are ways to get really specific guides for things like the "Formal Linear Perspective" videos here(these don't cover the 4 and 5 point grids I don't think):
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... KFtNZ-FDnP

But honestly I think for most purposes outside of architecture and industrial design(and even then it depends if the drawing is just for design or the final product), you should really just understand the rules behind linear perspective and only use them to enhance the feeling of the story you're trying to tell in any given image. Brandon Dayton has a pretty good video on this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfdSv7ZKf3Q

 

Postby azarga » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:54 pm

User avatar
  azarga
Posts: 331
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 11:14 pm
Location: putinland

@ambi

i guessed alternative view on composition problem (from a position of considering different style) might be somewhat useful, but eh. i'll just remove the post to the best of my ability to editt my posts
Please check my stuff here:
My dA, it is pretty bad.

 

Postby CaptainKiryu » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:54 pm

User avatar
  CaptainKiryu
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:15 pm

So I assume what you mean by the "composition" is the design of the objects on the page. If that is correct, i think you may be having trouble from the start by doing your thumbnails in line-drawings. To focus your energy initially on setting up the objects in an appealing way, I suggest using a big ol' brush and just blocking things in before getting caught up in all the other intricacies. You can use different opacity/values to also put down an idea of what is foreground, mid-ground, and background. Once that is out of the way and you've picked a thumbnail you like (which you should have done several with variations) then you can start focusing on throwing down some perspective for large, simple shapes, and then detail it from there.

Just my thoughts on the matter.
I post art to these places
Twitter: https://twitter.com/captain_kiryu
Deviantart: https://captain-kiryu.deviantart.com/
Tumblr: http://captainkiryusart.tumblr.com/


Return to Art Questions and Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests