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Postby erednasyl » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:34 am

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  erednasyl
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:58 am
Location: Brazil

Subject title: Anatomy + perspective critique!

I did this drawing but i'm not confident to render it... can someone help me?
Spoiler: show
Image
I post my art here: cardinalcarnation.tumblr.com

 

Postby CaptainKiryu » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:29 am

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  CaptainKiryu
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I sort of added a short draw-over to show what I mean, but I will also try to explain some stuff in writing. The drawing is flawed, and that's probably one of the reasons you are nervous at the idea of rendering. Rendering requires a lot of understanding of shapes and forms, so it is rather difficult to add form through painting to a drawing that lacks it. I'd recommend not really worrying about rendering yet. But, I will add a warning that my own drawing is not perfect and everything I say should be considered subjective and then you can filter out what you find most useful.

You seem to sort of be struggling with the forms and trying to figure out what they will look like from a slightly down-turned, 3/4 angle in this drawing. You have a differentiation between the front and top planes of the head which is good when you look at the forms on a vertical axis. But you don't have that same distinction for the shoulders and torso. I know a lot of people like to simplify the torso to a box for this---but i tend to prefer a more rounded, pringle/cape-like shape to kind of add more rhythm while still thinking in 3-D. I take that shape and lay it over the rib cage at it sort of leaves nice slots for the arms to attach to.

Some other things to think about are more related to the way the forms turn away from the body on a horizontal axis are more about foreshortening and compression.

So with the arms, you can sort of separate the shoulder, upper arm, forearm, and hand into different pieces and thing about how those shapes overlap when they are going back in space. With this pose in particular, I think you could reference martial arts images because the way her hands are raised are similar to many guards. When you look at these sorts of basic martial arts forms, you'll notice that the angles of the elbows tend to be lower or more outward/inward facing than you might think. In addition to this there will be compression in the form of the knife as it comes forward as well.

You also have some issues where the size of the eye and hand that are further away from the camera are the same size as those that are closer. for the hands, there wont be a huge difference, but there will be a bit, and they are showing different planes of the hand (the back hand being more pronated, and the front hand being more neutral). With the eye that is further away, you could show some horizontal compression and not let it leave the form of the face like it does here. The way you did it sort of gives the effect that the characters features are not turned as far as their skull is.

I would also move the mouth a bit up and forward so that it keeps in line with the convex form of the face. I know you are making a style choice, but I've found it much easier to keep the eyes and mouth were they should be with the nose acting as a sort of center-line-indicator.

Damaris sketches-2.png


Regardless of all that...I like this drawing. Her hair is a cool shape. I like the idea of the pose and the sort of coldness and aggression the person sort of gives off. The colours are pretty harmonious and pleasant to look at. The character being offset from the center of the canvas adds nice interest. And I think the hair and the clothes give a nice sense of motion.

I hope this helps. Just keep moving forward.
I post art to these places
Twitter: https://twitter.com/captain_kiryu
Deviantart: https://captain-kiryu.deviantart.com/
Tumblr: http://captainkiryusart.tumblr.com/

 

Postby DarkLored123 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:56 pm

  DarkLored123
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:18 pm

Image

I did a quick interpretation on what I would do differently if I were you. The main problem that came to mind is the perspective and forms, the perspective is distorted on the Y axis as shown in the box I drew next to your drawing as an example. When attempting a 3-point perspective you need to be aware that the 3rd vanishing point that is on the Y axis is technically 90 degrees above/below you so for you to see that amount of distortion you have in your original drawing would require you to look down quite considerably at least at a 45 degree angle or more to have that much of an effect noticeable. Since the angle you chose is not really extreme, it does not really require that much distortion along the Y axis and you can keep it relatively flat and get away with a 2 point perspective instead. Moving on to forms.

You need to be aware of forms, if you look closely at your drawing it is very flat with exception of some areas on the torso and the head itself. I recommend using basic forms to give yourself an idea of how to put everything together in 3D space, also I want to mention that even details such as clothes, eyes, mouth, hair, etc... should be treated as 3 dimensional forms, doing some observational studies can help you understand how to place them correctly. The way you placed your features on the character is very flat compared to the actual forms on the character which really takes away from the strengths in the drawing. A good example for this kind of error is the hair, if you look at it really closely it is very distorted which flattens it in return and the hair does not appear to have any volume at all, it feels like it is sitting on the head rather than being a part of it. One more thing to note, hair strands usually move in the same direction as a single unit, so when you choose for example the direction of where the wind is blowing the hair, make sure that everything is consistent throughout the entire thing and keeping the same direction of movement rather than conflicting with one another.

I also want to mention some stuff about dynamism. You have some dynamic elements along the clothes and hair, but the pose itself is very stiff. You want to make sure that the arms follow along a nice curved line that the viewer can follow without interruption, I am not very experienced with dynamism myself so I cannot really give much advice regarding that, but having it in your tool box is really convenient as it'll make everything flow smoothly.

I also want to note that I have not really used a reference for this so there might be some inconsistencies with the pose, but it should give you a general idea of where to look at when it comes to perspective, form, and dynamism to a certain extent. I will also leave some tutorials that address these fundamentals down below.

https://nsio.deviantart.com/art/Nsio-ex ... -401151718
https://nsio.deviantart.com/art/Nsio-ex ... -408201339
https://nsio.deviantart.com/art/Nsio-ex ... -427366531
https://nsio.deviantart.com/art/Nsio-Ex ... -504857038
https://nsio.deviantart.com/art/Nsio-ex ... -421873998

 

Postby erednasyl » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:10 pm

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  erednasyl
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:58 am
Location: Brazil

CaptainKiryu wrote:I sort of added a short draw-over to show what I mean, but I will also try to explain some stuff in writing. The drawing is flawed, and that's probably one of the reasons you are nervous at the idea of rendering. Rendering requires a lot of understanding of shapes and forms, so it is rather difficult to add form through painting to a drawing that lacks it. I'd recommend not really worrying about rendering yet. But, I will add a warning that my own drawing is not perfect and everything I say should be considered subjective and then you can filter out what you find most useful.

You seem to sort of be struggling with the forms and trying to figure out what they will look like from a slightly down-turned, 3/4 angle in this drawing. You have a differentiation between the front and top planes of the head which is good when you look at the forms on a vertical axis. But you don't have that same distinction for the shoulders and torso. I know a lot of people like to simplify the torso to a box for this---but i tend to prefer a more rounded, pringle/cape-like shape to kind of add more rhythm while still thinking in 3-D. I take that shape and lay it over the rib cage at it sort of leaves nice slots for the arms to attach to.

Some other things to think about are more related to the way the forms turn away from the body on a horizontal axis are more about foreshortening and compression.

So with the arms, you can sort of separate the shoulder, upper arm, forearm, and hand into different pieces and thing about how those shapes overlap when they are going back in space. With this pose in particular, I think you could reference martial arts images because the way her hands are raised are similar to many guards. When you look at these sorts of basic martial arts forms, you'll notice that the angles of the elbows tend to be lower or more outward/inward facing than you might think. In addition to this there will be compression in the form of the knife as it comes forward as well.

You also have some issues where the size of the eye and hand that are further away from the camera are the same size as those that are closer. for the hands, there wont be a huge difference, but there will be a bit, and they are showing different planes of the hand (the back hand being more pronated, and the front hand being more neutral). With the eye that is further away, you could show some horizontal compression and not let it leave the form of the face like it does here. The way you did it sort of gives the effect that the characters features are not turned as far as their skull is.

I would also move the mouth a bit up and forward so that it keeps in line with the convex form of the face. I know you are making a style choice, but I've found it much easier to keep the eyes and mouth were they should be with the nose acting as a sort of center-line-indicator.

Damaris sketches-2.png


Regardless of all that...I like this drawing. Her hair is a cool shape. I like the idea of the pose and the sort of coldness and aggression the person sort of gives off. The colours are pretty harmonious and pleasant to look at. The character being offset from the center of the canvas adds nice interest. And I think the hair and the clothes give a nice sense of motion.

I hope this helps. Just keep moving forward.


Thank you very much for showing my errors and explain them, i think that i learned a lot with your critique, thank you again!
I post my art here: cardinalcarnation.tumblr.com

 

Postby erednasyl » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:16 pm

User avatar
  erednasyl
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:58 am
Location: Brazil

DarkLored123 wrote:Image

I did a quick interpretation on what I would do differently if I were you. The main problem that came to mind is the perspective and forms, the perspective is distorted on the Y axis as shown in the box I drew next to your drawing as an example. When attempting a 3-point perspective you need to be aware that the 3rd vanishing point that is on the Y axis is technically 90 degrees above/below you so for you to see that amount of distortion you have in your original drawing would require you to look down quite considerably at least at a 45 degree angle or more to have that much of an effect noticeable. Since the angle you chose is not really extreme, it does not really require that much distortion along the Y axis and you can keep it relatively flat and get away with a 2 point perspective instead. Moving on to forms.

You need to be aware of forms, if you look closely at your drawing it is very flat with exception of some areas on the torso and the head itself. I recommend using basic forms to give yourself an idea of how to put everything together in 3D space, also I want to mention that even details such as clothes, eyes, mouth, hair, etc... should be treated as 3 dimensional forms, doing some observational studies can help you understand how to place them correctly. The way you placed your features on the character is very flat compared to the actual forms on the character which really takes away from the strengths in the drawing. A good example for this kind of error is the hair, if you look at it really closely it is very distorted which flattens it in return and the hair does not appear to have any volume at all, it feels like it is sitting on the head rather than being a part of it. One more thing to note, hair strands usually move in the same direction as a single unit, so when you choose for example the direction of where the wind is blowing the hair, make sure that everything is consistent throughout the entire thing and keeping the same direction of movement rather than conflicting with one another.

I also want to mention some stuff about dynamism. You have some dynamic elements along the clothes and hair, but the pose itself is very stiff. You want to make sure that the arms follow along a nice curved line that the viewer can follow without interruption, I am not very experienced with dynamism myself so I cannot really give much advice regarding that, but having it in your tool box is really convenient as it'll make everything flow smoothly.

I also want to note that I have not really used a reference for this so there might be some inconsistencies with the pose, but it should give you a general idea of where to look at when it comes to perspective, form, and dynamism to a certain extent. I will also leave some tutorials that address these fundamentals down below.

https://nsio.deviantart.com/art/Nsio-ex ... -401151718
https://nsio.deviantart.com/art/Nsio-ex ... -408201339
https://nsio.deviantart.com/art/Nsio-ex ... -427366531
https://nsio.deviantart.com/art/Nsio-Ex ... -504857038
https://nsio.deviantart.com/art/Nsio-ex ... -421873998


Thank you for the tips! They are really important to me <3
Also, thank you for the links, i'm already checking them out!
I post my art here: cardinalcarnation.tumblr.com


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