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Postby Fantelle » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:12 pm

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Subject title: Liquify/Lasso Dependency

    I am really dependent on these two tools and have a very hard time making something look nice without them. This obviously means that my traditional work
    suffers, I can never get it right first try. Because with traditional you only have one chance, and even though I know how I would fix it .. I already ruined it.

    Here's an example of something I drew today. Traditional on the left, the later digital one on the right.


    Does the ability to get things right on the first try come with time/practice? Or are there tricks I don't know about?
    My digital work would be just as bad as my traditional if it weren't for tools such as liquify, lasso and ctrl + z. :/


Postby Audiazif » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:28 pm

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You are impeding yourself when trying to get it right on the first try. I mean not everyone is going to get it right the first time and on the rare occasion they do get it "right" the first time it does not add to the drawing. I think traditional media is actually more forgiving than digital in some ways (even with media that is perceived as "permanent").
Fantelle wrote:...with traditional you only have one chance, and even though I know how I would fix it .. I already ruined it.

Fantelle wrote:Does the ability to get things right on the first try come with time/practice? Or are there tricks I don't know about?

You have as many chance as you want if you draw lightly. If it is not to your liking correct it lightly. Keep correcting until it is to your liking and then darken the line you like. Reinforcing the lines you like by making them darker will draw the attention away from your initial lighter lines. Believe it or not this can be done in pen or ink. It is like target practice, the more shots you take, the more info you have to go off of in order to hit the bullseye. Also the more times you go shooting, the less initial shots you will need to hit the bullseye. So, yes, you can hone in on getting it right the first time but you should go into a drawing like you are not going to get it right the first time. And if you really mess up to the point where it is not correctable you have many ways of rectifying the drawing. You can always redraw it. It might go smoother than the first time because you have already drawn it once. You could also use the numerous ways of transferring the first drawing to another piece of paper and then correcting the mistake(s). For example there is tracing (w/ or w/out a backlight), carbon transfer, and projection.
"Painting is edge hell!"



Postby DarkLored123 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:12 pm

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Like Audiazif said you are placing too much pressure on yourself by trying to create something good on the first try, making an illustration takes planning and patience. You can't expect to come up with a good idea in a single second, you need to think what about what the idea is and put it down on paper in a simplified format(thumbnail sketching could help) so you can then compare it to other ideas and choose one that suits your needs best.

You answered your own question, if you want to get rid of dependency of the tools then stop using them and figure out why you are not making decent work without them. Also traditional drawing gives you a chance to re-do it is just matter of how much pressure you apply on the paper that determines whether or not you'll properly be able to erase what you drew, if I can't go over something then I put a blank page on top and trace again while making sure that I fix the mistakes that appeared on the previous page.

Quite honestly your quality isn't going to improve if you do not do rudimentary exercises and you can't expect massive improvements over time if you are not focusing on the fundamentals, analyze your drawings and figure out what you are missing from what I see your drawing lacks perspective, volume, poor line quality, doesn't have any construction, and is stiff. There is no secret trick that can improve your work as hard as it is to accept, it all depends on what you prioritize.

So what I recommend for the long term is that you take the fundamentals seriously and stray away from all the unnecessary details and instant gratification, be patient as well you can't expect to improve exponentially in a matter of weeks I'd also increase the amount of sketches I do per day and tune down the illustrations since you really need the quantity to be able to increase the chances of you making faster improvement but also keeping in mind the quality(meaning not mindlessly sketching, actual studies and so on). I hope this helps you out in the future, good luck on your journey.


Postby Kam » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:26 pm

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First of all don't feel bad for using those tools, but if you're using them a little too much and that bothers you I recommend doing more traditional work, If you make an arm too long you need to erase it and redraw it, that forces you to think more about how you're gonna put down your lines and the easiest way to have a better chance of getting it right is to break down the drawing into smaller steps, for example if you're drawing your characters legs instead of trying to draw the legs right off the bat you can draw a general gesture or stick figure or whatever you want and if that looks proportionate and has the gesture you want then you can develop it more. Basically the idea is that you should throw away the mindset of getting it right the first time and instead do your drawings in stages, whether I like it or not that's always how it goes for me.

When I work digitally I still use the lasso, but I noticed that over time despite the fact that I don't do digital often every time I go back to it I rely less on the lasso, so that's why I recommend you to do more traditional work.


Postby biosphere » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:24 am

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Your problem can literally be fixed by self discipline.

No digital tools are so accurate that we won't make mistakes. Digital has lots of other tools to make up for that fact, so like Kam says. Don't feel bad for using digital tools to achieve the best possible result digitally.

But if you want to get more acceptable results traditionally, you have to:

A: practice traditionally more

B: find a workflow that ensures you don't almost literally paint yourself into a corner. (like audi says, draw lighter and all that jazz)

You basically already know what to do. It just takes some getting used to.


Postby Fantelle » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:33 pm

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    Sorry for the late answer, it took me a while to process and think about your answers. Thank you so much for your help, you're all very much right in what you're saying.

    I guess this might go hand in hand with my fear of failure and perfectionist attitude. I strongly dislike having ugly sketches in my sketchbook, even if there's a great
    re-done version next to it. I feel like I'm putting a lot of pressure on each and every drawing I make, like I'm unable to just draw for the heck of it. Thank you for
    helping me realize this. I'm thinking the best solution would be to get a secret sketchbook and just draw a crap-load?


Postby biosphere » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:00 am

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Yes. I intentionally buy crappy sketch books and most of my better sketches appear in them.
The cheaper the sketch book for me, the better the results, as I am no longer gripped by that fear that I'm wasting the paper or something.
Hopefully when I'm more experienced I won't feel so bad about it, but that's how I go about it now.

I have a nice hard cover toned paper sketchbook that has been used for about one page. It's tragic.


Postby Moe » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:39 am

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You get good at what you do. Practice drawing with pen and your previsualization will improve so you don't have to correct as much.


Postby Gmcube » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:24 pm

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You don't have to get things right the first try on paper. While its not as convenient as digital, there are ways to make similar adjustments with the help of a lightbox. Make your drawing as nice as possible, then layer on another sheet on top and trace the parts you like while fixing the parts you don't. you can even move the paper a bit if you want to move the position of a body part. If you have a access to a copier (or scanner and printer) you can even enlarge or shrink certain things.

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