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Postby segujo » Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:36 pm

  segujo
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Subject title: Some feedback on this Crow. Pliiz. :)

Nothing special... no deeper thoughts... It's just The Crow in a slight Steampunk setting.
Imagine FX challenge.

I need some new Eyes on this one... What do you pro's see....?

Thanks in advance!!!

Segujo
WIP 4 3 small.jpg

 

Postby Zjacklee » Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:43 pm

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Hey dude, first of all pretty nice mood and setting. I like the overal look.
I also like that you have a clear focal point in your setting.

one thing that is bothering me about this piece is that the dude's body seems a bit funky. I can't quite put my finger on what exactly is weird about it yet.
Look closely. Can you really See?!

http://zjacklee.deviantart.com/ that's my deviant. ^_^

https://www.facebook.com/Trplerainbow My fanpage.

 

Postby perkexpert » Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:39 pm

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Good start, nice mood nice rendering of the figure, several things i noticed:
- The brickwork is too big, especially in the foreground
- the house on the left "twists", so roof and walls arent correctly alligned
- the pose is a bit weak
- his face is too white, as hes backlit, same goes for the body, a bit sad as you already rendered a lot ^^, so he would be an almost completely dark figure, despite the moon from the back and some diffuse light from reflections, which would be quite dim.

- the crow should have bigger wings
- the shadow of the figure has to be way darker
- figure could be even more centered, the background has a bit too much weight
- the level of detail figure/rest doesn't match

Otherwise: Has lot's of potential, would love to see your final!
Last edited by perkexpert on Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby kocab22 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:39 pm

  kocab22
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Hi, first of all nice painting..

As Zjacklee mentioned, there is something wrong with the guy.. Actually Im not really sure how you wanned him to look like. He is slim for sure :)Im not expert so take this as just one voice, but here is what I see ..

- his central line is off though, look at his six pack, compared to his breasts and hibs. Im confused, I guess there is something wrong..
- maybe his pelvis is too low, Im not sure but it looks like his external obliques part is too long
- even he is slim, I will push his hips a little bit out
- thigh muscle looks like obdurate to max but in that case his leg will be pretty straight
- his calf are too wide, it might be because of his boots but still, maybe change the boot .. but its not a big deal though ..

Im not really good in this, hope it helped you to find something ;)
ff.jpg

 

Postby segujo » Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:30 am

  segujo
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Thank you guys!

Most helpful!
I don't agree on all of your Points but that's what home blindness makes... ;)


I'm not sure I will continue with it though. But it was really good Points for Learning and have in mind to next Project.

Thank's again!! :)

 

Postby Ambiguity » Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:49 pm

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kocab22 wrote:- his central line is off though, look at his six pack, compared to his breasts and hibs. Im confused, I guess there is something wrong..
It's not off, the rib cage and pelvis work independent of each other, they don't need to line up perfectly.

kocab22 wrote:- maybe his pelvis is too low, Im not sure but it looks like his external obliques part is too long

There is quite a bit of space between the top of the illiac crest and the bottom of the costal cartilage on humans so I don't think this is wrong either.

kocab22 wrote:- even he is slim, I will push his hips a little bit out

He probably could a tad bit, but I don't think it necessary. The bigger you make the hips, the more feminine the character will look.

kocab22 wrote:- thigh muscle looks like obdurate to max but in that case his leg will be pretty straight

Not sure what your point was here, but they do look pretty rigid which stiffens the pose.

kocab22 wrote:- his calf are too wide, it might be because of his boots but still, maybe change the boot .. but its not a big deal though ..

I think it's more that the thighs are too thin with how buff his upper body is, the calves shouldn't be as big as the thighs.

 

Postby kocab22 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:40 pm

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lol you might write next time Im all wrong Ambiguity.. probably better to shut up

 

Postby Zjacklee » Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:06 pm

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kocab22 wrote:
- even he is slim, I will push his hips a little bit out

He probably could a tad bit, but I don't think it necessary. The bigger you make the hips, the more feminine the character will look.


I agree that it should be pushed out at least bit. If you make them too big of course, it will have a different undesired effect in this case.

Maybe not the hips themselves but the obliques muscle. It's very hard to see a grown up guy without those unless you are really really skinny. It wouldn't make sense in relation to the other muscles to not have them showing at all. Now that I think about it, even skinny people might have that stubble there. And if you are too skinny to have the obliques showing, then your hips will be showing more. So there is some kind of definition there needed.

Then again... I'm not really sure what these type of pants might do to the shape. hmmm :ugeek:
if they are stretchy they would follow the body. if they are hard... then they would have their own shape dominating.
Right now it seems stretchy,so i guess it will have to commit a bit to the body contour which in turn could have a bit more shape in that area.

Spoiler: show
Image
Look closely. Can you really See?!

http://zjacklee.deviantart.com/ that's my deviant. ^_^

https://www.facebook.com/Trplerainbow My fanpage.

 

Postby Ambiguity » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:22 pm

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kocab22 wrote:lol you might write next time Im all wrong Ambiguity.. probably better to shut up

Sorry, I just thought it'd help you out to know why things might be wrong instead of me just saying you're wrong. Besides, this is all based off of how I understand things to be, I could be wrong too so it's open to discussion.

Zjacklee wrote:I agree that it should be pushed out at least bit... Maybe not the hips themselves but the obliques muscle. It's very hard to see a grown up guy without those unless you are really really skinny. It wouldn't make sense in relation to the other muscles to not have them showing at all. Now that I think about it, even skinny people might have that stubble there. And if you are too skinny to have the obliques showing, then your hips will be showing more. So there is some kind of definition there needed.

Then again... I'm not really sure what these type of pants might do to the shape. hmmm :ugeek:
if they are stretchy they would follow the body. if they are hard... then they would have their own shape dominating.
Right now it seems stretchy,so i guess it will have to commit a bit to the body contour which in turn could have a bit more shape in that area.

His pants are very high on his body though, not to mention those 2 belts on top of that. I don't think you'd see the external obliques that much, let alone overlapping the illiac crest like you do in the picture you posted with all that on top.I could be wrong though. *shrug*

 

Postby Zjacklee » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:22 pm

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Ambiguity wrote:
kocab22 wrote:lol you might write next time Im all wrong Ambiguity.. probably better to shut up

Sorry, I just thought it'd help you out to know why things might be wrong instead of me just saying you're wrong. Besides, this is all based off of how I understand things to be, I could be wrong too so it's open to discussion.

Zjacklee wrote:I agree that it should be pushed out at least bit... Maybe not the hips themselves but the obliques muscle. It's very hard to see a grown up guy without those unless you are really really skinny. It wouldn't make sense in relation to the other muscles to not have them showing at all. Now that I think about it, even skinny people might have that stubble there. And if you are too skinny to have the obliques showing, then your hips will be showing more. So there is some kind of definition there needed.

Then again... I'm not really sure what these type of pants might do to the shape. hmmm :ugeek:
if they are stretchy they would follow the body. if they are hard... then they would have their own shape dominating.
Right now it seems stretchy,so i guess it will have to commit a bit to the body contour which in turn could have a bit more shape in that area.

His pants are very high on his body though, not to mention those 2 belts on top of that. I don't think you'd see the external obliques that much, let alone overlapping the illiac crest like you do in the picture you posted with all that on top.I could be wrong though. *shrug*


Yes ofcourse. you can't see them... but you have to feel they are there. That's why i pointed out about the material of the clothing and its reaction with the body. Allot of people draw the clothes but forget or don't pay much attention on how it interacts and wraps around the subject.
It can be stylised and be drawn smooth but I don't think that was the case here.

I'm not an expert either, haha. just pointing things out I might have done differently.
Look closely. Can you really See?!

http://zjacklee.deviantart.com/ that's my deviant. ^_^

https://www.facebook.com/Trplerainbow My fanpage.

 

Postby kocab22 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:07 pm

  kocab22
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My reaction was a bit affected..

Im pretty new, I draw for only 4 months? So I probably might avoid something like criticism of someone else.. Just wanned to be useful but it can actually do more harm than than good though... I have to learn more anatomy, Im in it again.. Just wondering when I will get pissed of it again :D ..
The most difficult is to combine all what you know together (proportions, anatomy, gestures etc..)

 

Postby alnoth » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:01 am

  alnoth
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his hair, the raven and definitely at least the roof he is standing on + the chimney bit or whatever it is to his right should be as crisp and sharp as the rest of him. i see the character with his gun as being crisply defined, while everything else is sort of blurred and i dont see a reason why. other than that, nice skech.

 

Postby segujo » Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:12 pm

  segujo
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Thanks for the feedback guys!
Most welcome!!
I've really learned from it!! :)

 

Postby Total100 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:28 am

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Zjacklee wrote:
kocab22 wrote:
- even he is slim, I will push his hips a little bit out

He probably could a tad bit, but I don't think it necessary. The bigger you make the hips, the more feminine the character will look.


I agree that it should be pushed out at least bit. If you make them too big of course, it will have a different undesired effect in this case.

Maybe not the hips themselves but the obliques muscle. It's very hard to see a grown up guy without those unless you are really really skinny. It wouldn't make sense in relation to the other muscles to not have them showing at all. Now that I think about it, even skinny people might have that stubble there. And if you are too skinny to have the obliques showing, then your hips will be showing more. So there is some kind of definition there needed.

Then again... I'm not really sure what these type of pants might do to the shape. hmmm :ugeek:
if they are stretchy they would follow the body. if they are hard... then they would have their own shape dominating.
Right now it seems stretchy,so i guess it will have to commit a bit to the body contour which in turn could have a bit more shape in that area.

Spoiler: show
Image



hey just wondering, were or how do you get your reference images and how do some of the people here get ones that match they're image so well. If i go to google images and type "shirtless muscular guys" i find something i rather not be looking at haha. do you use google images or some other refrence image sight? this goes for everyone not just zjack, where do you guys find refrence?
"Art is my cooking channel, i watch it, drool over it, and hope to one day make it."
I'm Alex, I'm 12,
Here is my sketchbook= viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2900 :)

 

Postby Ambiguity » Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:54 am

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Total100 wrote:hey just wondering, were or how do you get your reference images and how do some of the people here get ones that match they're image so well. If i go to google images and type "shirtless muscular guys" i find something i rather not be looking at haha. do you use google images or some other refrence image sight? this goes for everyone not just zjack, where do you guys find refrence?

I find flickr gives way more relevant results, but I use them purely as study material, all of the pictures are copyrighted on that sight. Sometimes DeviantArt has pretty good stuff in the resources section too.

 

Postby Total100 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:40 pm

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Ambiguity wrote:
Total100 wrote:hey just wondering, were or how do you get your reference images and how do some of the people here get ones that match they're image so well. If i go to google images and type "shirtless muscular guys" i find something i rather not be looking at haha. do you use google images or some other refrence image sight? this goes for everyone not just zjack, where do you guys find refrence?

I find flickr gives way more relevant results, but I use them purely as study material, all of the pictures are copyrighted on that sight. Sometimes DeviantArt has pretty good stuff in the resources section too.

okay. good point i never tried flickr OR deveintart thanks!
"Art is my cooking channel, i watch it, drool over it, and hope to one day make it."
I'm Alex, I'm 12,
Here is my sketchbook= viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2900 :)

 

Postby segujo » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:55 am

  segujo
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As for references:

Total100:
Hehe... just think a little step longer...

I use google.
If I need a male torso I usually look for stuff where I think there might be bare naked chests...
Athlets like boxers or martial artists are usually good for this. Then you might get a name like "klitschko" that you can use for further searchs.
You can also use movies and pause the screen. there are quite some choices... Fightclub, Rocky, Bruce Lee.......

And then I don't copy the reference... I use many different... Might be a pair for the overall pose... another to detail the arms. and a pair of others for the face etc... others for lighting or textures and details.....

I am actually a little lacy with references. I should use them a lot more!

 

Postby Zjacklee » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:06 pm

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hmmm... well, i get pretty creative with google you know. haha
I find my references only from google images. I sometimes try to describe what I want, and based on the result I can start picking up new keywords to further narrow down my search.
I keep it simple to begin with. for example... "draw anatomy"... male torso, female upperbody. punch to the camera. roundhouse kick. anime kick.
things like that.

Other than that, I have my own collection of pieces and bits of interesting pictures. You could say I collect digital drawings and pictures that I find interesting in any way, which I think I could use it someday as a reference.(not just anything, otherwise the amount of files will be so overwhelming I wouldn't be able to quickly find what I need)
Weapons, Clothes, anatomy, hairstyles, color schemes, anime girls, poses, anime boys etc etc.
Look closely. Can you really See?!

http://zjacklee.deviantart.com/ that's my deviant. ^_^

https://www.facebook.com/Trplerainbow My fanpage.

 

Postby Frost » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:58 am

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I really like the picture so far. Really great job on the muscles. I noticed that the figure is has two different light sources, one is coming from the moon, and the secondary light is slightly from the figures front left. It looks like the secondary light source only illuminates his torso, face and arms. Maybe if his pants and boots are influenced by the secondary light, it'll help bring him out from the background. I also think that the moon can be a distraction, maybe if it was a little smaller and behind a few clouds it'll make Crow the focal point. If you want, lightly hint a grunge texture over the buildings.

From reading some previous post, here's where to study anatomy, Posemaniacs.com is good, also zygotebody.com

I'm pretty sure this guy will let you practice, but if want to post what you practice, you'll have to receive his permission first, his photographs are not stock. http://vishstudio.deviantart.com/

I hope this helped and really nice work so far.


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