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Postby scribbloid » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:58 pm

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Subject title: i have a tremor (shaky hands)

I would like to draw elegant lines with my arm and shoulders.
I don't use my wrist most of the time I use my arm.

many artists say you need to control your tool your pen first.

But I have a neurological symptom in europe we call it tremor.
I can't keep my hand very calm.
At least it's not connected to a dangerous disease.
But it destroyed many drawings.
I am not sure if I like to draw if I am obviously not supposed to get better drawing skills.
at least my pen control will always be a weak point

maybe I should give up because I will always get disappointed.
But maybe I should rethink my drawing habits.
For example I don't use an eraser. Maybe on my case I should use my wrist more often.
or I could do more digitally.


https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_U9sj-iwoPSdlM2UDlMUWNqRUE

 

Postby Fantelle » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:04 pm

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Postby Audiazif » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:08 pm

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I really don't see much of a problem with the drawings you linked. Maybe it is one of those things that is more noticeable to you because you are conscious of the tremor and you are the one who created them but in the big picture it is not noticeable to the viewer. Sort of how an artist could say their drawing is "bad" because all they see are the mistakes. It might also be hidden by how rough these works are. I don't mean it in a bad way, I think the drawings are pretty good but they seem more like sketches to me. Do you have work that is more finished or polished?

I have no point of reference to your situation which is way I would need more information. Is the tremor constant or does it come and go? Is the tremor in both hands? Could you maybe try learning to draw with your other hand? Are there times when it is better or worse? How hard do you hold your pencil/pen? Does the tremor effect certain kinds of lines or all lines? What scale do you work at? I think these questions just scratch the surface of things that could factor into how to deal with the issue.

I think the video Fantelle linked could be a viable solution.
"Painting is edge hell!"

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Postby scribbloid » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:19 pm

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Wow the video was interesting. .
Instead of thinking about how to use his new stuff this artist figured out how to make it much much harder for him to paint.
And the princip of pointilism was still there, he just used other tings than pencil dots.
So he didnt abandoned his original idea completely, but he changed it into something that wouldn't be completely destroyed be a use of the shaking (he destroyed his paintings but that was his decision. )

It saddens me that his shake is so bad, i at least am able to draw straight lines though not 100 reliable.
The shake in the hands is constant and i believe there arent variations in strenght of the shake.
I hold my pen loosely and the shake in both hands doesn't vary.
Straight vertical lines are much easier so I could turn the paper to make it easier.
I didn't do that often.
Drawing from my body to the end of the paper is easier for me than drawing from the end of the paper towards my body.

210 x 297 mm is the size of my paper.
Part of my original goal was to draw complex buildings like round train stations centralised buildings etc.

my English is not good I hope I am easy to understand.

 

Postby Fantelle » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:49 am

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    I think you'll be fine tbh. As Audiazif said, your drawings look good and I wouldn't be able to tell you had a tremor from them. I think with
    practice, mileage and lots of perseverance you could achieve fantastic results, I don't at all think your tremor stands in the way of that. :)

    From what I've observed, just be careful not to make it worse. Work large, you're working on A4 atm but don't be afraid to move up to A3!
    Find a technique and materials that fit you and just keep at it ! ^^

 

Postby scribbloid » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:51 pm

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Hi, i am still trying to figure out how to make appealing Line work.

I tried different methods (Holding my pen differently , using stabilizer, etc.) without mixing them.
The orginal Picture is from nobuteru yuki.
I find them either too stiff or ugly and to chaotic.
Really, my motoric skills cant be the key to this. Maybe I should observe more and more lineart of good artists to figure out why I like their linework but not mine.
Last edited by scribbloid on Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 

Postby Fantelle » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:41 pm

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    Great that you're experimenting! Now, I'm not a linework kind of person so take this with a grain of salt,
    but to me the most appealing is the 4th file from the top. It's the one that looks the least forced imo. ^^''


 

Postby scribbloid » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:00 pm

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I try to explain my Problem better than i did in my first Posts:

I know some tricks for better digital lineart, Problem with most of them is that my lines start to look very unorganic and dead.
Often they have an vector graphics look to them.
I dislike that.
Vector I think often looks ugly.


The problem is: With Training alone i cannot compensate my Tremor.

(I do exercises on paper like drawing boxes and circles with my arm etc. and most of the time i use my arm and not my wrist when i draw on paper)

I know, it is not the worst Kind of Tremor, but I want to draw very polished linework.

Maybe you have some tricks to share with me?

I would be very grateful.
Last edited by scribbloid on Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 

Postby Audiazif » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:43 pm

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I could only see the drawings by Jean Giraud, the other link was dead or down for me. Just to put things in perspective he had more than half a decade (50+ years) of experience. I am not saying it will take you 50 years to get "good" but don't think you are going to get your line work anywhere close to his anytime soon, it will take time. It is great to have these artists to strive for but don't get discouraged when you compare your work with theirs. Instead compare your work with your previous work.

I don't know if it has been mentioned before but it seems like you are already doing this. Start with a rough sketch and then put final lines over it. It dosen't matter how many rough sketch stages you go through to reach the final lines so try multiple refining steps on one rough sketch (e.g. start with rough > refine> refine what you just refined> refine that> repeat refining> final lines). In the end people only see the final piece they cant see or judge it on how you got it to that state. I would also repeat working with a bigger canvas. If you work with a bigger canvas and draw bigger it will minimize the effect of the tremor on the final lines. And in digital you can zoom in more and draw the lines, when you zoom out the tremor will be hardly noticeable.
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Postby Bugpal Hopeday » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:19 pm

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Sorry to hear about your tremor. I don't think you went into that much detail about your drawing setup but do you draw upright with an easel/upright tablet monitor? I've found since I've been drawing upright I've gone from using my wrist exclusively to using a lot more elbow and shoulder movement because it's easier and more fluid.

Also, getting really good with bezier curves (I think Photoshop just calls it pen tool?) would be a good idea, because you can just adjust the control points to remove errors. I sometimes use this method and a mouse when I need a perfect curves even though I don't experience tremors.

The beziers tend give it more of an artificial look, like vector, which you said you hate. There are ways around that but it depends on the software... here is something I just made with mouse and a few simple bezier curves, and then I applied brush settings to the vector line (I use Clip Studio Paint) to make it look less artificial.
My sketchbook. Feedback and crits welcome.

 

Postby scribbloid » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:39 pm

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Sorry to hear about your tremor. I don't think you went into that much detail about your drawing setup but do you draw upright with an easel/upright tablet monitor?

No I didnt. Interesting Idea, thank you very much.

What Kind of Detail do you think could I add? Because of my lack of experience with english I might have Problems explaining my drawing Setup in Detail.
I am not sure what Kind of Explanation I could give, eventually you can give me tips.

Most of the time I already use my arm/ ellbow and not my wrist.

I am not sure what Kind of Training would be the best for me. May be I really should use my wrist more because when I want Details or symmetric shapes it gets really hard for me to rely on my arm and ellbow.

 

Postby Bugpal Hopeday » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:48 am

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@scribbloid Well my tablet monitor is propped up on something like this. If you do want to continue with using large motor movements, from arm and elbow, I think that angle makes it easier.

But if the source of the tremor is the arm then maybe you should rely on the wrist more, like you said. The wrist is versatile and you could work with it 100% especially if you are often changing zoom level when working digital.

You mentioned training. There are some methods to practice the act of drawing lines themselves. I used to do the ones described at the 1 minute mark of this very old video. But I don't know the details of your condition, and to what degree you can change the tremor, vs finding clever ways to accommodate it. Good luck.
My sketchbook. Feedback and crits welcome.

 

Postby Markdawg » Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:57 am

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Even with that tremor, you can draw. You can only get better. Once you cope with it I dont think it will matter.


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