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Postby nunbul » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:24 pm

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Subject title: I think I have landed my first freelance job...

I have got really excited, yet I don't know how to handle it properly.

So a friend has connected me with his dad's best man. The guy has an already illustrated book that he wants to be improved.
I haven't seen the book yet, but I know he wants 20 illustrations. He has seen my work and he thinks I'm way too detailed for a children's book,
but creating something less detailed should be easier... right?

I also don't know what to charge. 20 illustrations should be a lot of money even for something not that detailed.
It's supposed to be commercial work, and commercial work is supposed to be charged higher - if not double the personal work, right?
So it could be more than $50 per page. Does that sound too much or too little? Supposed that one image might need 1 or even 2 days of work,
$50 is really low for commercial work.... riiiight?

Heeeelp

 

Postby Audiazif » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:35 pm

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It sounds to me like you are underestimating how much work you will have to do and severely undervaluing it. From my limited research, I found it takes a few months to a year to illustrate a book depending on how detailed. I don't think it would be wise to agree to working on this until you actually see the book ("already illustrated" could mean a couple of stick figures for all you know) and what the budget is. Then you would be able to better gauge the amount of work and come up with a rate that fits within the client's budget.
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Postby nunbul » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:57 pm

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Audiazif wrote:It sounds to me like you are underestimating how much work you will have to do and severely undervaluing it.


That's why I am posting about it :) 20 images is a freaking number, but something tells me that these images are already good to a certain point and the writer wants me to... make them better, whether it's line art, anatomy, perspective or rendering- I have no idea.

Thank you for sharing with me your little research results though!

 

Postby Josephcow » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:19 pm

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People underestimate how much work illustration actually is. Like you just sit down and draw for a few hours and then hand it in. But you'll be spending a lot of time planning everything out, choosing compositions, finding references, figuring out how to match the style of the rest of the book etc. I wouldn't give him a price estimate until you learn his budget. If you tell him you'll do it for 1000 bucks and his budget was 3,000? Congrats you scammed yourself. My advice would be to only do as much work as you're getting paid for. If he only has 200 bucks to spend, do 200 dollars worth of work. Maybe that's only 3 pictures, but then he'll know how much these things actually cost and you still get the experience.

If you are just fixing up someone else's work, that's a different story because all the hard work has already been done.

 

Postby RukuKabe » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:31 pm

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Most of what needs to be has already been said, but I will put in my 2 cents worth. Make sure whatever you're doing, do it under contract. Take the initiative to make sure you're insured in case things go sloppy (business wise). The person you're working for may be an awesome individual, and everything may go over smooth as gravy, but it's better to build a practice out of it in preparation that you run into those clients who "do" try to pull a fast one on you.
When you start getting money for your art, you have just become a business, and your name is the company title. And your artwork, officially becomes a product. If someone wants to talk to you about doing illustrations for a book they are going to publish, that's not hobby-level collaboration anymore. That's an arranged agreement, and that means contract.

Even if you only do freelance artwork on the side, make a habit of treating it like a business, even for family members and friends. You can always lower the price if you want to "help someone out", but that doesn't mean you should devalue your work to the level of a 5 year old's crayon drawing that you give to your preschool teacher. You've obviously put in time and effort to study anatomy, light, form, composition. That's knowledge has a price tag on it.

I say this as encouragement. This could be the foundations of building a career if you pursue it correctly, so be sure to think things through before you leap into them. Best of luck on this and hope everything works out in your favor! ^^
“何か良いことでもあったのかい。”
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Postby nunbul » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:08 pm

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I deeply thank you all for the precious replies, full of information that I wouldn't get around me irl.

Quite a few people have mentioned the contract thing, but I am not sure how I can practically do that.
Since I am not a licenced freelancer yet, I am not legally allowed to work. I can't even give a receipt or an invoice.
How am I supposed to make a contract?

 

Postby RukuKabe » Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:20 am

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nunbul wrote:I deeply thank you all for the precious replies, full of information that I wouldn't get around me irl.

Quite a few people have mentioned the contract thing, but I am not sure how I can practically do that.
Since I am not a licenced freelancer yet, I am not legally allowed to work. I can't even give a receipt or an invoice.
How am I supposed to make a contract?


You don't really need a license in order to do freelance work. Your contract is just a written understanding of what you will be doing as the artist, and what the client will be required to do as the client. If it's in paper, and the client signs it, they are by law required to adhere to it or if you took the case to court, there isn't really any way to go against that if the client clearly states by signature that they agreed to certain terms.

I'm not an expert on the subject so I would highly suggest doing some research on creating contracts as an independent illustrator and such. 15 seconds into google later I found this little template that serves as a pretty good standard:

http://www.illustrationcastle.com/blogi ... mplate.pdf

All in all it's best to do your own research and figure out what will work best for you. Best of luck my friend! The art world is cut-throat and very, very competitive. The least you can do is at least have the law on your side. :P
“何か良いことでもあったのかい。”
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Postby nunbul » Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:46 am

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RukuKabe wrote:You don't really need a license in order to do freelance work.


Unfortunately, you do here. What if they want an invoice or a receipt of some kind? I definately have to be legaly self-employed.

Anyway, I got some more info, and I've received the previous illustrations. They are all over the place.
No perspective, no anatomy and it's seems painted with crayons... The current images serve as an idea rather than pre-done work.
20 illustrations makes that a HUGE project though...

Thank you for the amazing feedback guys!

 

Postby lilla » Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:41 pm

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RukuKabe wrote: You don't really need a license in order to do freelance work.

Sorry but I can't imagine that being true for any country and any type of freelance work. I've been working as a freelance translator for the past two years.
Sure, you can take a comission here or there without doing it officially but when you want to take yourself more seriously, you need to get your status sorted out, especially when taking on long-term projects. If you are not legally working as a freelancer and then get screwed over, how would you ever prove you are in the right? I doubt that a contract would even help much if it turns out that you're not even legal to work as a freelancer.

And freelancing itself is not as uncomplicated as it sounds. Setting up your status is a bit of a pain itself, you basically have to manage a one-person-business. Being a rather unorganised person I really hated all the paperwork that comes with it, you have to declare your income and so on, not to mention that if you want to make it more or less stable as an income source you constantly have to look for clients to work with...

So you really either need to start freelancing "officially", or you can take the risk of doing it unofficially, if you really just want to give it a go to work for someone and so on, a lot of artists do it just for the experience. Some don't even get paid for it, you have to decide for yourself whether you think it's worth it, whether you can trust the person...

 

Postby nunbul » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:17 pm

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lilla wrote:
RukuKabe wrote: You don't really need a license in order to do freelance work.

Sorry but I can't imagine that being true for any country and any type of freelance work.



Well, in Greece, you need to be a registered working individual due to our insurance policy.
Yes, even if you don't won't an insurance, you still need to be registered and pay for it.
In short, if you don't have insurance, you are working illegaly - doesn't make sense, but that's how it is...

As for managing my own 'company' and being self-hired, well, I won't have a problem with that, since i have
a bachelor in economics already :P

 

Postby RukuKabe » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:04 am

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lilla wrote:
RukuKabe wrote: You don't really need a license in order to do freelance work.

Sorry but I can't imagine that being true for any country and any type of freelance work. I've been working as a freelance translator for the past two years.
Sure, you can take a comission here or there without doing it officially but when you want to take yourself more seriously, you need to get your status sorted out, especially when taking on long-term projects. If you are not legally working as a freelancer and then get screwed over, how would you ever prove you are in the right? I doubt that a contract would even help much if it turns out that you're not even legal to work as a freelancer.

And freelancing itself is not as uncomplicated as it sounds. Setting up your status is a bit of a pain itself, you basically have to manage a one-person-business. Being a rather unorganised person I really hated all the paperwork that comes with it, you have to declare your income and so on, not to mention that if you want to make it more or less stable as an income source you constantly have to look for clients to work with...

So you really either need to start freelancing "officially", or you can take the risk of doing it unofficially, if you really just want to give it a go to work for someone and so on, a lot of artists do it just for the experience. Some don't even get paid for it, you have to decide for yourself whether you think it's worth it, whether you can trust the person...


I never said it wasn't complicated. But it's not as complicated as some claim it to be is all I'm saying. Is it tedious? Yup. Is it complicated? Not to the degree that it should be taxing.

And I speak from experience doing freelancing without licencing, as I don't plan to do it as a career and it only takes up about %5 of my artistic time slot, the rest of which for the time being is dedicated to study and improvement. If you wanted to make a business out of it, yes, you would need to do the proper documentation to "start a business" for the sake of taxes and such, but doing freelance work doesn't automatically mean you should get a license for it. Not unless it's something you plan to dedicate a large amount of time to and plan on reaching out to business clients and make a living off of.

The original poster was talking about doing essentially what sounds like commission work for a near-family member, and that's why I gave the advice that I did.

Regardless, anything you do should be under contract. Period. A court isn't going to just look at a written document "signed" by the participating party and say "well the guy didn't have a license so it doesn't matter that the person didn't hold up their end of the deal". I haven't heard of that happening at least, but I "have" heard over, and over, and over, and over, how artists get screwed by just being told how much they'll be paid, and then sending off some artwork, and not getting paid.
“何か良いことでもあったのかい。”
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Postby RukuKabe » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:06 am

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nunbul wrote:
lilla wrote:
RukuKabe wrote: You don't really need a license in order to do freelance work.

Sorry but I can't imagine that being true for any country and any type of freelance work.



Well, in Greece, you need to be a registered working individual due to our insurance policy.
Yes, even if you don't won't an insurance, you still need to be registered and pay for it.
In short, if you don't have insurance, you are working illegaly - doesn't make sense, but that's how it is...

As for managing my own 'company' and being self-hired, well, I won't have a problem with that, since i have
a bachelor in economics already :P


I speak as an American and how I'm aware of how it works within my own country, so apologies that I don't have the proper knowledge on how Greece handles freelance work and such. Best of luck to you!
“何か良いことでもあったのかい。”
−忍野メメ、傷物語


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