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Postby Ajumani » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:37 am

  Ajumani
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:20 am

Subject title: Proportions and Relationships Trouble.

Ive been having a little bit of proportion/relationship troubles lately with my drawing.

 For example ive been practicing drawing hands lately, and i tend to draw the thumb much wider than it should be compared to the hand and the rest of the fingers at times.
or draw the wrist more longer than the fingers and such.

on other stuff I draw One shoulder might be to narrow or too long compared to the head or the head itself it bigger than it should be.

is there any tips or practices and exercises to help improve my proportions/relationships? (If that is the problem im dealing with) ive tried to ask other fourms but they didnt give as clear answers as people on here who always help out which is much appriciate!! :)

I have a sample of a hand i was (tryinggg) to draw kinda badly lol
https://i.imgur.com/bNnQcVF.png?1

 

Postby Audiazif » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:48 pm

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  Audiazif
Posts: 900
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:38 am

It looks like you are drawing too directly or trying to get it "right" in one go. You will rarely get things correct the first time. With practice and drawing a lot you will need less tries and lines to get it correct. I think you need to sketch things out first and then refine and restate things until they look "right". If you did do a sketch and it is hidden than your sketch did not have enough info to help you. Take the drawing you were trying to copy as an example. The arcing lines are to help with the length and placement of the fingers, if you look at a hand there are curved lines that can be drawn through it to show where things go. Guidelines and plumb lines are used to help relate things to one another.
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Postby DarkLored123 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:15 pm

  DarkLored123
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:18 pm

When it comes to proportions & relationships, to me at least it is mostly about observation and less practice. You need to observe these things and have them in the back of your mind all the time, and using guidelines could help you establish these proportions as you draw. If I were to look at your interpretation of the diagram, it looks like you spent less time observing the hand you were trying to copy and spent more time on the drawing itself, that is kind of counter-productive since you are not giving yourself enough time to establish the information in your head. Copying things like this is good for proportions though, since you will be forced to keep them in mind for the drawing to be properly copied, I just recommend being more observant when it comes to establishing proportions.

You also need to keep in mind that the diagram has more than just proportions to it. If you look closely it has form, perspective, and gesture in play to make the entire thing work. If we were to compare the diagram to your interpretation of it, it looks like you have not spent much time establishing these things and makes it look like you were thinking with lines rather than forms. At this point in my opinion, you'd benefit more by drawing boxes and keeping them the same size rather than going for things as complex as hands, they are way too difficult because they take into account the above mentioned fundamentals combined and unless you are aware of them and know how they work it is pretty difficult to create a copy.

So my recommendation for practicing proportions is to simply take basic forms and try to keep their proportions the same, the rest is mostly observation and it all counts when you are consciously aware of what you are doing.

 

Postby Ajumani » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:52 am

  Ajumani
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:20 am

Audiazif wrote:It looks like you are drawing too directly or trying to get it "right" in one go. You will rarely get things correct the first time. With practice and drawing a lot you will need less tries and lines to get it correct. I think you need to sketch things out first and then refine and restate things until they look "right". If you did do a sketch and it is hidden than your sketch did not have enough info to help you. Take the drawing you were trying to copy as an example. The arcing lines are to help with the length and placement of the fingers, if you look at a hand there are curved lines that can be drawn through it to show where things go. Guidelines and plumb lines are used to help relate things to one another.

Thanks for the help! I did have a sketch below but i didnt think about showing it.
Im guessing its best to just constantly check angles and relationships between certain parts of the hand untill eventually i get enough practice to the point where i can eyeball it for example: how wide the fingers are compared to each other and how tall they are compared to the wrist etc?

I think my problem is that i find measuring everything very tedious and i tend to skip out on it at some parts which ruins the whole drawing

 

Postby Ajumani » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:59 am

  Ajumani
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:20 am

DarkLored123 wrote:When it comes to proportions & relationships, to me at least it is mostly about observation and less practice. You need to observe these things and have them in the back of your mind all the time, and using guidelines could help you establish these proportions as you draw. If I were to look at your interpretation of the diagram, it looks like you spent less time observing the hand you were trying to copy and spent more time on the drawing itself, that is kind of counter-productive since you are not giving yourself enough time to establish the information in your head. Copying things like this is good for proportions though, since you will be forced to keep them in mind for the drawing to be properly copied, I just recommend being more observant when it comes to establishing proportions.

You also need to keep in mind that the diagram has more than just proportions to it. If you look closely it has form, perspective, and gesture in play to make the entire thing work. If we were to compare the diagram to your interpretation of it, it looks like you have not spent much time establishing these things and makes it look like you were thinking with lines rather than forms. At this point in my opinion, you'd benefit more by drawing boxes and keeping them the same size rather than going for things as complex as hands, they are way too difficult because they take into account the above mentioned fundamentals combined and unless you are aware of them and know how they work it is pretty difficult to create a copy.

So my recommendation for practicing proportions is to simply take basic forms and try to keep their proportions the same, the rest is mostly observation and it all counts when you are consciously aware of what you are doing.

Ive tried to practice drawing some basic forms in proportion and also went back and took a look at sycras proportions video!
 https://youtu.be/luJh1ASyzB8

At around the 2:20 minute mark he explains about the angles and how

"As long as the angle is correct the shape will be in proportion no matter what the size is" paraphrasing it a bit

but basically i tried to do what he did, which was just starting with the angle and building the square around.

it but for some reason my square ends up a more rectangular shape even though i tried my best to match up the correct angle? If that makes sense.

On the left the square is almost exactly
The same length ad the width but on mine its much longer than it is taller. But the angles are similar at least from what i checked but i could be super wrong

I have a little example of it here but you can see the right side which I've circled in blue is longer than it is taller which means its not in proportion right?
 https://i.imgur.com/9oxkfUc.png

Im not exactly sure why that keeps happening since I've done it multiple times by now.

am i making my angle too long or does it have to be exactly the same angle in order for it to look right?

Thanks a lot for the help. Its very much appreciated!

 

Postby DarkLored123 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:42 am

  DarkLored123
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:18 pm

Ajumani wrote:
DarkLored123 wrote:When it comes to proportions & relationships, to me at least it is mostly about observation and less practice. You need to observe these things and have them in the back of your mind all the time, and using guidelines could help you establish these proportions as you draw. If I were to look at your interpretation of the diagram, it looks like you spent less time observing the hand you were trying to copy and spent more time on the drawing itself, that is kind of counter-productive since you are not giving yourself enough time to establish the information in your head. Copying things like this is good for proportions though, since you will be forced to keep them in mind for the drawing to be properly copied, I just recommend being more observant when it comes to establishing proportions.

You also need to keep in mind that the diagram has more than just proportions to it. If you look closely it has form, perspective, and gesture in play to make the entire thing work. If we were to compare the diagram to your interpretation of it, it looks like you have not spent much time establishing these things and makes it look like you were thinking with lines rather than forms. At this point in my opinion, you'd benefit more by drawing boxes and keeping them the same size rather than going for things as complex as hands, they are way too difficult because they take into account the above mentioned fundamentals combined and unless you are aware of them and know how they work it is pretty difficult to create a copy.

So my recommendation for practicing proportions is to simply take basic forms and try to keep their proportions the same, the rest is mostly observation and it all counts when you are consciously aware of what you are doing.

Ive tried to practice drawing some basic forms in proportion and also went back and took a look at sycras proportions video!
 https://youtu.be/luJh1ASyzB8

At around the 2:20 minute mark he explains about the angles and how

"As long as the angle is correct the shape will be in proportion no matter what the size is" paraphrasing it a bit

but basically i tried to do what he did, which was just starting with the angle and building the square around.

it but for some reason my square ends up a more rectangular shape even though i tried my best to match up the correct angle? If that makes sense.

On the left the square is almost exactly
The same length ad the width but on mine its much longer than it is taller. But the angles are similar at least from what i checked but i could be super wrong

I have a little example of it here but you can see the right side which I've circled in blue is longer than it is taller which means its not in proportion right?
 https://i.imgur.com/9oxkfUc.png

Im not exactly sure why that keeps happening since I've done it multiple times by now.

am i making my angle too long or does it have to be exactly the same angle in order for it to look right?

Thanks a lot for the help. Its very much appreciated!


What sycra has covered regarding these angles relates to the geometric principle of similar right triangles(do not know if I am referring to the correct terminology). The principle covers the basic idea that if two right triangles have the same angles, then no matter what scale they are drawn in they are proportional.

So lets say right triangle A has a 30 60 and 90 degree angle, triangle B also has the same angles, therefore regardless of scale the right triangles are gonna be proportional to each other. It is hard for me to explain since I have not touched geometry for a while but what Sycra is saying in his tutorial is quite true. The reason your diagrams do not match up is because you changes the proportions of the object as a whole, which changes the angles as well. A rectangle and a square have two different properties.

If you want your diagrams to match up to the first square, you have to make the second diagram equal in proportion in terms of right triangles because a square is perfect and all of its sides are equal. This means that if one side is 5 feet in length, it applies to all sides. So if you want to increase the scale of the cube by two times, that means all sides will have to be 10 feet in length, the scale would end up 1:2, which means that the larger square will equal to the smaller square if you divide it by two because theoretically they have the same angles.

Personally I do not think you need to go through so much hassle to just get proportions down, I never really did these kind of exercises so I cannot really tell you how effective it is, other than the fact that the principle behind them is based on geometry. Try forcing yourself too observe more and look for relationships before making marks, and compare what you did to the original and correct when deemed necessary.


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