Have some questions? Want answers? Got some good tips? This is the place to ask, or answer, questions regarding art tools, and methods.

Moderators: Ambiguity, SeaQuenchal, virtueone

 

Postby tokigami.kineko » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:19 am

  
tokigami.kineko

Subject title: How do I approach japanese manga efficiently in long term?

Embarrassingly, I have only drawn for 12 days so far. In the past, I had been distracted by non-essential things like color science, workspace setup, and equipments. But, now I'm right back on track. I want to work hard and smart and save time.
First, let me show you my embarrassing drawings.

2017_09_07-p107-project4b-subject.jpg

2017_09_07-p107-project4b-drawing.jpg

2017_08_26-p093-project3e-three_quarter_view_portrait-subject-Christopher_Scully.jpg

2017_08_26-p093-project3e-three_quarter_view_portrait-drawing.jpg

2017_07_23-p091-project3d-front_view_portrait-subject-Christopher_Scully.jpg

2017_07_23-p091-project3d-front_view_portrait-drawing.jpg

2017_07_19-p080-project3b-lounging_figure-subject.jpg

2017_07_19-p080-project3b-lounging_figure-drawing.jpg

2017_07_18-p077-project3a-standing_figure-subject.jpg

2017_07_18-p077-project3a-standing_figure-drawing.jpg


I watched most videos on a playlist, Getting Started: Tutorials for Beginners.
I created my own customized curriculum based on that playlist.

Here's my customized curriculum.
Spoiler: show
= Curriculum for Artistic Manga Drawing

This curriculum was based on

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piKV5nXL-C4[Fundamentals of Art by Sycra Yasin]
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck4NuQWZ-kk[Drawing - How to Get Started if You Haven't Drawn Before]

[x] means `Done`

[o] means `In Progress`

== Art

* [x] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... F8OjhSjbMl[Essays About Art by Nerdwriter1]
* [x] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... ILMD23AN1v[Understanding Art (Case Studies) by Nerdwriter1]

== Anime

* [x] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... bSCquq7aOP[General Anime Knowledge by digibro by Digibro]
* [x] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... rKk9Rx83rY[Recognizing Great Anime (in one episode) by Digibro]

== Computer Colors

* [x] http://ninedegreesbelow.com/photography/articles.html
* [x] http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials.htm
* [x] http://simon.tindemans.eu/tools/tonability[Tonability by Simon Tindemans]

== Basic Digital Image Editing

* [x] http://ronbigelow.com/articles/articles.htm
* [x] https://luminous-landscape.com/pdf/Curves.pdf

== Basic Drawing

* [o] Bert Dodson, Keys to Drawing
** [ ] Basics of Blender
* [ ] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKFfSl-EBfI[How to Practice Drawing by Sycra Yasin]
* [x] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJWLaDSNBAI[How to Draw: Foreshortening with the Coil Technique by Sycra Yasin]
* [ ] http://www.dorian-iten.com/howtodraw/[How to draw what you see by Dorian Iten]
* [ ] http://www.dorian-iten.com/memory-drawing/[Memory Drawing by Dorian Iten]

== Proportion and placement

* [ ] http://www.dorian-iten.com/accuracy/[Accuracy - A Drawing Guide by Dorian Iten]
* [ ] http://www.dorian-iten.com/accuracy-training/[Accuracy Training by Dorian Iten]

== Form & Construction

[TIP]
====
* Draw primitive shapes
* Assemble primitive shapes into a complex shape such as a human body
====

== Perspective

NOTE: Choose one or more of the following materials

* [ ] http://marshallart.com/other/shop/videos/index.php[Marshall Vendruff's perspective series]
* [ ] Perspective Made Easy by Norling??
* [ ] How to Draw by Scott Robertson??

== Anatomy

* [ ] Atlas of Human Anatomy for the Artist by Stephen Bogers Peck(15-20$) from
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxZbsLB ... izC_fLULzu[Art Advice I'd Give Myself If I Had to Start From Scratch by Sycra Yasin]
* [ ] https://www.youtube.com/user/ProkoTV

=== Resources

** Sycra.net
** Google
** http://www.anatomy360.info/anatomy-scan-reference-dump/
** houdon ecorche(There are smartphone apps for this)

== Gesture(Do it with Anatomy???)

* Google
* Ryan Woodward
* Figure Drawing(Look for lines of action, gesture. Exaggerate poses)

== Values(Greyscale values of a picture)

* [ ] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5zVFlMQZEs[The Value Game by Sycra Yasin]
* [ ] http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL ... WqScFTRhtv[Foundations of Light and Shadow by Sycra Yasin]
* [ ] Still lives?
* [ ] http://www.dorian-iten.com/light-and-form/ ??

== Color Theory

* [ ] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kQllLy_X4I[How to Choose Colours that Work! by Sycra Yasin]
* [ ] ALLA PRIMA by Richard Schmid
* [ ] Color and light by James Gurney???????????
* [ ] http://www.huevaluechroma.com/index.php[additive and subtractive color mixing, etc, ... by David Briggs]
* [ ] http://handprint.com/HP/WCL/water.html[Water colors by Bruce MacEvoy]
* [ ] http://handprint.com/LS/CVS/color.html[color and light]
* [ ] Glowing Colors on handprint.com

== Manga

* [ ] BAKUMAN COMPLETE BOX SET?

== Composition

* [ ] Framed Ink
* [ ] https://www.youtube.com/user/everyframeapainting/videos


I consulted a local internet community. Someone pointed out that I was focusing too much on basics of western drawing instead of japanese manga.
He said he studied western drawing for 4 years in a university and had to learn japanese manga from scratch. He said I could save time by learning manga from the beginning.

Unlike Sycra Yasin who recommends a 2-year basic course on (Western) Drawing, he told me to keep making manga while learning fundamentals of manga instead of fundamentals of (Wetsern) Drawing.
He was probably right that japanese manga has its own storytelling method which I need to practice from early on. Also, obviously, values and colors of manga are done differently from those of western drawing.
Perhaps, fundamentals of manga are largely separated from those of western drawing.
One thing was clear. It seemed beneficial to draw manga everyday while learning fundamentals so that fundamentals are reviewed and absorbed into my manga style efficiently.

However, he strongly recommended learning from a manga class or a private manga lesson for at least half a year because I clearly don't know how to control lines and I would be lost, get things wrong, acquire bad habits in the way, and waste a few years without a teacher's close guidance. This is unlike Sycra Yasin who said one didn't need to go to an art school. I have been running low on money. I need to control my expenses until I make money from drawing. While it's possible to pay for a class or a lesson for that long, doing so could potentially damage my long-term financial security without which uninterrupted focus on drawing over a long term is not possible. I might be able to justify the expense if it shaved off at least 2 years of learning down the line.

Because I have yet to learn to draw properly, I am deeply confused with regard to learning strategy. I have been facing conflicting bits of information that I cannot digest alone.

Is there actually a specialized approach to japanese manga that is a lot faster than any approach from basics of generic western drawing?
Would attending a private manga lesson or a manga school for half a year save a lot of time in the course of 4~5 years?
I need perspectives from various people. In the course of 4~5 years, what would be the best way to approach japanese managa?

 

Postby Ambiguity » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:21 am

User avatar
  Ambiguity
Posts: 5524
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 7:55 am
Location: Your dreams

tokigami.kineko wrote:I consulted a local internet community. Someone pointed out that I was focusing too much on basics of western drawing instead of japanese manga.
He said he studied western drawing for 4 years in a university and had to learn japanese manga from scratch. He said I could save time by learning manga from the beginning.

Unlike Sycra Yasin who recommends a 2-year basic course on (Western) Drawing, he told me to keep making manga while learning fundamentals of manga instead of fundamentals of (Wetsern) Drawing.

Gesture, proportion, form, perspective, anatomy, light, and color are the fundamentals of the visual aspect of life, and are what every representational artist uses to draw no matter the style, they are not just part of "western drawing"(although it is true that these were historically valued in western art long before the east used them). Manga typically features simplified realism, and as such adheres to the same fundamentals. The only things Japanese comic book art differs on from western art are themes, storytelling, and design(which includes compostion).

tokigami.kineko wrote:he strongly recommended learning from a manga class or a private manga lesson for at least half a year because I clearly don't know how to control lines and I would be lost, get things wrong, acquire bad habits in the way, and waste a few years without a teacher's close guidance. This is unlike Sycra Yasin who said one didn't need to go to an art school. I have been running low on money.

I don't know why he thinks you need a class to learn to control your lines, general draftsmanship skills like that are the one thing you can learn just by doing stuff like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgDNDOKnArk

As for going to school in general, the consensus among most artists seems to be that you should do your research on the schools first(e.g Does it teach what I want to know? Are the teachers competent? Do past students show marked improvement? Etc.), decide if you can afford it, and then go if it meets your criteria. If you can't go, no big deal, you have the internet and can learn prettty much everything you need to know anyway.

tokigami.kineko wrote:Because I have yet to learn to draw properly, I am deeply confused with regard to learning strategy.

You just answered your own question, learn how to draw properly, i.e. learn the fundamentals I mentioned.

Is there actually a specialized approach to japanese manga that is a lot faster than any approach from basics of generic western drawing?
Again, the fundamentals are the same no matter the style. Yes, you should apply what you learn to what you want to be doing. Whether that's book cover illustration, concept art, or manga, it all requires the fundamentals though.

Would attending a private manga lesson or a manga school for half a year save a lot of time in the course of 4~5 years?
That depends on a lot of factors that I pointed out, no one can possibly know if every school is good or if it's going to put you into crippling debt that will force you to spend more time working than drawing.

In the course of 4~5 years, what would be the best way to approach japanese managa?
Learn to draw, learn to tell a story, learn to panel, and learn any techniques that will get you the look you want(e.g. inking, screen toning, hatching, etc.)

 

Postby DarkLored123 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:50 pm

  DarkLored123
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:18 pm

tokigami.kineko wrote:Is there actually a specialized approach to japanese manga that is a lot faster than any approach from basics of generic western drawing?
Would attending a private manga lesson or a manga school for half a year save a lot of time in the course of 4~5 years?
I need perspectives from various people. In the course of 4~5 years, what would be the best way to approach japanese managa?


Is there actually a specialized approach to japanese manga that is a lot faster than any approach from basics of generic western drawing?


The fundamentals in Japanese manga are the same as any other type of art style out there, but the emphasis on the fundamentals vary. For Japanese manga your best friends are, perspective, gesture, proportions, and forms & shapes. Anatomy is also an important fundamental, but it isn't really something you need to know to gain a believable figure, you can get away with very general anatomy. Gesture is an essential part of Japanese manga since if you look at mangas from many sources you'll notice a lot of flow and even the panels themselves have flow in them so that you can easily guide your eyes through the page.

Would attending a private manga lesson or a manga school for half a year save a lot of time in the course of 4~5 years?


Attending a private manga lesson that is hosted by Japanese professionals will save you a lot of time if you make the best use of it, you can have the best teacher yet can still do poorly in class, so you want to be keen and try to absorb as much as you can. If it is a Western hosted manga drawing lesson then you are wasting your time, as much as I do not want to say it Western artists have no idea what goes behind the scenes of making actual good quality manga.

I need perspectives from various people. In the course of 4~5 years, what would be the best way to approach japanese managa?


As long as you are paying attention in class and doing more than is expected of you then you will naturally improve with instruction. When trying to learn to draw manga you should be more focused on how to have the art compliment the story, you can have the best artistic skills out there but if your story is not up to par then you are wasting precious time, so you should focus on both drawing and writing skills.

If I were you out of all the skills I would focus most on perspective, proportions, and gesture. These three skills are your essentials to good composition and will ensure that your drawing is of interest, just remember to do your research and practice. Without practice your knowledge is not being utilized, and please by all means do not think that you have to draw in a way people tell you to draw things, I found that drawing the way you see the world yourself is much easier than what other artists interpret for you. People also do not care about how technically accurate you are, so do not feel obligated to develop your skills to such an extent that they are super accurate, like stated previously being able to tell the story through the aid of visuals is much more important than being accurate.

Here are some interesting videos of Japanese manga artists drawing their characters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02iX51bCB-w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKcwYDQwGcM&t=229s

I hope this helped answer your questions.

 

Postby tokigami.kineko » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:22 am

  
tokigami.kineko

Ambiguity wrote:Manga typically features simplified realism, and as such adheres to the same fundamentals.


I still don't understand why he said 4 years of learning western drawing in a university was equivalent to learning japanese comics for 1~4 months. Is it because the university's curriculum was too thinly spread to help draw any kind of art? Because japanese comics has twists in fundamentals that I need to learn from early on?

DarkLored123 wrote:Attending a private manga lesson that is hosted by Japanese professionals will save you a lot of time if you make the best use of it


Where can I find them? I have been learning japanese for a little more than a year. I have memorized and reviewed more than 2,200 kanji characters and hundreds of japanese words in Anki. I can write basic sentences and converse a bit in japanese, but I am probably a year or two away from being proficient enough to take a drawing lesson in japanese.

Many comics artists in my region have been heavily influenced by japanese comics, but most of them deviate significantly from japanese styles. Shall I contact a professional comics artist who speaks my language or english and is proficient in japanese style? Shall I look for a japanese professional anyway? Because I don't live in japan, if I looked for japanese professionals, I would have to find those in my region or take online lessons on communication platforms like hangout or skype.

Right now, off the top of my head, I remember artists on deviantart.com who provide tutorials for japanese comics. Their drawings weren't very japanese, but I can probably ask them for some useful advices.

DarkLored123 wrote:When trying to learn to draw manga you should be more focused on how to have the art compliment the story, you can have the best artistic skills out there but if your story is not up to par then you are wasting precious time, so you should focus on both drawing and writing skills.


In comics, pictures are shown. In novels, pictures are described in words. To me, visual is an integral part of story and enhances story. For example, I want images with certain aesthetic qualities to evoke certain emotions at intended magnitudes. Good novels somehow manage to draw those images in my mind. This means I will need fairly good artistic skills to flesh out the kind of stories I want.

 

Postby DarkLored123 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:25 pm

  DarkLored123
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:18 pm

tokigami.kineko wrote:
Ambiguity wrote:Manga typically features simplified realism, and as such adheres to the same fundamentals.


I still don't understand why he said 4 years of learning western drawing in a university was equivalent to learning japanese comics for 1~4 months. Is it because the university's curriculum was too thinly spread to help draw any kind of art? Because japanese comics has twists in fundamentals that I need to learn from early on?

DarkLored123 wrote:Attending a private manga lesson that is hosted by Japanese professionals will save you a lot of time if you make the best use of it


Where can I find them? I have been learning japanese for a little more than a year. I have memorized and reviewed more than 2,200 kanji characters and hundreds of japanese words in Anki. I can write basic sentences and converse a bit in japanese, but I am probably a year or two away from being proficient enough to take a drawing lesson in japanese.

Many comics artists in my region have been heavily influenced by japanese comics, but most of them deviate significantly from japanese styles. Shall I contact a professional comics artist who speaks my language or english and is proficient in japanese style? Shall I look for a japanese professional anyway? Because I don't live in japan, if I looked for japanese professionals, I would have to find those in my region or take online lessons on communication platforms like hangout or skype.

Right now, off the top of my head, I remember artists on deviantart.com who provide tutorials for japanese comics. Their drawings weren't very japanese, but I can probably ask them for some useful advices.

DarkLored123 wrote:When trying to learn to draw manga you should be more focused on how to have the art compliment the story, you can have the best artistic skills out there but if your story is not up to par then you are wasting precious time, so you should focus on both drawing and writing skills.


In comics, pictures are shown. In novels, pictures are described in words. To me, visual is an integral part of story and enhances story. For example, I want images with certain aesthetic qualities to evoke certain emotions at intended magnitudes. Good novels somehow manage to draw those images in my mind. This means I will need fairly good artistic skills to flesh out the kind of stories I want.


I don't know where you can find them since I was not looking for any myself. If you want to just improve your skills at drawing then a Western course will be enough, but if you want to learn specifically how to draw manga then you need a course that specializes at that because there are certain techniques that Japanese use and Western artists don't.

You shouldn't really ask other people about what you should do in my opinion, think about your goals and make a decision based on them since all I can do for example is give you advice I'd give myself if I were in your shoes. You need to know what skills you need to pick up for you to make a proper decision on what course you should take, if you want your work to be authentic then a Japanese course is good, if you don't then a Western course is another option.

 

Postby Ambiguity » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:10 pm

User avatar
  Ambiguity
Posts: 5524
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 7:55 am
Location: Your dreams

tokigami.kineko wrote:I still don't understand why he said 4 years of learning western drawing in a university was equivalent to learning japanese comics for 1~4 months. Is it because the university's curriculum was too thinly spread to help draw any kind of art? Because japanese comics has twists in fundamentals that I need to learn from early on?

That's a really broad statement, he's talking as if all schools and teachers are exactly the same no matter where you go. I don't know what he means because I'm getting this filtered through you, but I will say that in the US when we go to college we are required to take classes in the main academic disciplines(math, science, social studies, and language arts), so 90% of your time is spent on things not related to art in an art university. I was told by some European friends that that is not the case over there, so maybe it's the same in Japan, or possibly the schools he is referring to in Japan are like what we call tech schools over here wherein you only learn things required for the job you're specializing in.

"Because japanese comics has twists in fundamentals that I need to learn from early on?" - What are you referring to with this btw? Besides style(which there are indefinite amounts of variations within the manga industry anyway), what do you really think is so visually different about manga that it would use different drawing fundamentals?

Incidentally, I've been watching this series that shows the process of various mangaka, and besides little things like how much space they have to have between the marigin of the panels, having to produce a name(draft) and a manuscript, and sticking to their story type(shounen, shoujo, seinen, etc.), I don't see any rigid rules about creating manga that you'd need a special course or someone who makes manga to tell you about. It sure seems like as long as you can draw and write you're fine: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... DzcMuVyK5g

 

Postby Josephcow » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:01 pm

User avatar
  Josephcow
Posts: 821
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:46 pm

Just wanted to say that while it's good that you're considering your course of long term study now, and what you want to do with art in the future, for right now training your eye to see accurately should probably be concerning you most of all, whether you are interested in Western or Japanese art.

Don't worry so much about what course you're going to take right now. Just work on your skills and as you learn more things will start to become more clear. There are things which will be common to both japanese and western basic drawing courses. I think you should take Sycra's advice and do a basic western drawing course. Even if it turns out to be not for you, you'll only be stronger and more well-rounded for doing it. Sycra's own videos and this forum are probably a good place to start.

 

Postby tokigami.kineko » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:16 am

  
tokigami.kineko

Ambiguity wrote:I will say that in the US when we go to college we are required to take classes in the main academic disciplines(math, science, social studies, and language arts), so 90% of your time is spent on things not related to art in an art university. I was told by some European friends that that is not the case over there, so maybe it's the same in Japan, or possibly the schools he is referring to in Japan are like what we call tech schools over here wherein you only learn things required for the job you're specializing in.


He and I are in the same country that is not Japan. His art university might be inefficient, but I can't know without asking him again.

Josephcow wrote:for right now training your eye to see accurately should probably be concerning you most of all, whether you are interested in Western or Japanese art.

Don't worry so much about what course you're going to take right now. Just work on your skills and as you learn more things will start to become more clear. There are things which will be common to both japanese and western basic drawing courses. I think you should take Sycra's advice and do a basic western drawing course. Even if it turns out to be not for you, you'll only be stronger and more well-rounded for doing it. Sycra's own videos and this forum are probably a good place to start.


That is my current perspective as well. However, a part of my mind whispers that there may be a lot of Japanese local knowledge that this forum doesn't have access to. That would be unknown unknowns. I want to turn them into known unknowns that I know I need to learn or do before I dive into execution phase again.

Fortunately, I realized yesterday that I could write an email in rudimentary japanese. I sent an email that asks for an advice to two Japanese artists whose pixiv drawings I liked. A year of vigorous japanese learning is beginning to pay off. Because a random pixiv artist is not likely to answer my emails, I will also look for Japanese artist communities and steal their local knowledge. I will keep learning japanese hard.

 

Postby Moe » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:32 am

User avatar
  Moe
Posts: 1169
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:16 am

Why are you so adamant about making a manga? Making a comic already requires a lot of skills( writing, character design, anatomy, perspective, composition, etc etc), it's likely the most difficult form of art you can do. But on top of that you want to learn Japanese and their culture? I'm not saying it's an impossible dream but you're thinning yourself out too much. You're much better off going the webcomic route by posting your stuff on sites like tapastic and linewebtoons. Everything is becoming digital nowadays anyway.

 

Postby tokigami.kineko » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:08 am

  
tokigami.kineko

Moe wrote:Why are you so adamant about making a manga? Making a comic already requires a lot of skills( writing, character design, anatomy, perspective, composition, etc etc), it's likely the most difficult form of art you can do. But on top of that you want to learn Japanese and their culture? I'm not saying it's an impossible dream but you're thinning yourself out too much. You're much better off going the webcomic route by posting your stuff on sites like tapastic and linewebtoons. Everything is becoming digital nowadays anyway.


Adamant? I'd say I am motivated by japanese styles. I have been learning japanese for a year. I can already write emails in rudimentary japanese.
I wake up at 5:00~5:03AM to an alarm, take a shower, and study japanese for 2 hour 30 minutes. I use countdown timers to regulate my study sessions. After that, I research drawing for 5 hours. I go to bed at 9:15~9:40PM. I can increase the amount of time I allocate to drawing to 7~8 hours per day without much difficulty and without giving up learning japanese. I learned to use my time very efficiently with pomodoro sessions last year. However, drawing for 7~8 hours a day is only useful when I have a solid strategy and can focus on execution.

I'll take webtoon route in addition to other routes. But, webtoons can be japanese, too. I used to say on this forum that I wanted to work on pen display like Cintiq 22HD. I'm going digital. You're preaching to the choir.

The reason that I'm adamant about it is that I'm afraid that I might end up wasting too much time. I already have a track record of having wasted time twice in the past. I'm aiming for minimalism this time.
I know someone who wasted 6 years and still drew poorly by drawing aimlessly and not having a solid plan. I was probably going to waste 6 years, too if I hadn't stopped learning a while ago.
One of the ways I could have wasted time was to learn drawing without making manga and learning storytelling. I didn't have any proper plan for comics or manga.
It turned out that I wasn't even following the basic Western drawing course properly. I need a strategy that will achieve the core goal first and help acquire other desirable skills efficiently.
Last edited by tokigami.kineko on Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

 

Postby Audiazif » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:18 am

User avatar
  Audiazif
Posts: 900
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:38 am

tokigami.kineko wrote:That is my current perspective as well. However, a part of my mind whispers that there may be a lot of Japanese local knowledge that this forum doesn't have access to. That would be unknown unknowns. I want to turn them into known unknowns that I know I need to learn or do before I dive into execution phase again.


There are no secrets in the sense that these artist are keeping some information for themselves that is going to unlock some hidden skill. There is always going to be that thought of "they can do that really well but I can't, they must have something I don't" but the "something" really is just a lot of practice and reinforcement of the fundamentals. All the information is out their, it just takes time and experience to sort through it. Nothing anyone says is going to instantly make you proficient at a skill.

Take math for an example of a skill that could parallel the same sort of awe inspiring-ness of art. People who can do large calculations in their head could be seen as knowing something others don't know, especially in a time like this where everyone is walking around with a calculator in their pocket. Kind of the same as seeing a skilled artist's art or even just seeing them work. But in the end the person who can do the calculations in their head are just applying the basics, the artist is doing the same.
"Painting is edge hell!"

Deviantart
Sketchbook

 

Postby tokigami.kineko » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:26 am

  
tokigami.kineko

Does anyone know where to find efficient training methods for aspiring mangakas?

I thought of two naive methods.

Method 1

Phase 1
Learn basics of manga with a book. Practice drawing manga everyday. This shouldn't take more than 6 months.

Phase 2
Start learning fundamentals of drawing. Learn manga/comics storytelling. After learning basic storytelling, make time for making manga everyday.
Practice fundamentals in manga-production sessions. Learn fundamentals outside manga-production sessions.
This phase continues until I traverse fundamentals of drawing and manga storytelling at least once.
This might take 2 years.

Phase 3
Learn various things including fundamentals of drawing and manga storytelling in random orders. Keep the separation between manga-production sessions and learning sessions.
If I like, I can add a free practice session so that I can continuously review fundamentals I learned previously.
This can take 3 or more years.

Phase 4
Acquire fame. Monetize your fame. Keep learning forward.

Method 2

This is similar to Method 1, but it doesn't start with Phase 1.
I start fundamentals of drawing first. Then, add manga drawing and storytelling to the training regime after I become comfortable enough with fundamentals of drawing.
I'll still keep the separation between manga/free practice and learning.

 

Postby azarga » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:57 am

User avatar
  azarga
Posts: 336
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 11:14 pm
Location: putinland

Seems rather strange that in your plan fundamentals come in play only in stage 3. Consider the probability that they are called "fundamentals" not just because the word sounds cool.

Make sure you don't shoot yourself in the leg by chasing "efficiency" before actual knowledge/skill.
Please check my stuff here:
My dA, it is pretty bad.

 

Postby DarkLored123 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:30 pm

  DarkLored123
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:18 pm

Art is mostly about theory and practice, so as long as you study the fundamentals and then practice them you should see improvement regardless of how you practice it as long as it is aimed at objectively and consciously. Sitting around wondering what is the most efficient method to improve won't get you anywhere unless you try putting it into practice and seeing if it works. If something doesn't work then change it up, I found that whenever I feel like I am stuck and am not improving is because I need to change my approach to drawing, so for me what works best is to simply change the way I draw completely, but the fundamentals are always in my mind when I draw.

What I found that works best is to give yourself a very long time frame, for myself I gave 6 years to get to the degree that I want which removed the anxiety of needing to improve fast even though I am still trying to lol. So to answer your question, the most efficient method to learning is to actually sit down, learn, practice, and apply your knowledge.

Also in my opinion like stated before I think your story telling skills are what will sell your manga, the drawings just describe the scene to the person and stimulate their visual senses, but the way you create the story is what brings attention. In the future if you want to really check how good you are, I recommend participating in ShonenJump contests, it is a good check marker for your skills as you are being critiqued by veterans in the industry.

I also have a recommendation, if you are completely new then you obviously need to develop your draftsmanship skills which you can find in drawabox, the site has some useful exercises and for myself I personally found it useful up until lesson 2.

 

Postby tokigami.kineko » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:46 am

  
tokigami.kineko

DarkLored123 wrote:What I found that works best is to give yourself a very long time frame, for myself I gave 6 years to get to the degree that I want which removed the anxiety of needing to improve fast


I also allowed myself 6 years. I was afraid because I saw someone who wasted 6 years. But, that person has been a hobbyist. Perhaps, I worried too much about my progress.

Today, I decided on my general learning strategy. I'll learn writing, fundamentals of drawing, and comics simultaneously.
I'll start learning comics only after I become comfortable with Anatomy. I'll soon set aside time for a practice session because I want to review and practice what I learned.

For now, fundamentals of drawing account for the lion's share of my schedule.
Until I become relatively comfortable with japanese and fundamentals of drawing, comics and writing will not get a lot of time.
(My plan is to draw japanese manga. So, I learn japanese.)

The remaining blanks to fill in are comprehensive introductions for proportion( and placement), form & construction, and value.
For those fundamentals, I have Sycra Yasin's videos and Dorian Iten's short tutorials. I suspect I need more proper introductions for those fundamentals as a beginner.

Can anyone recommend good introductions for proportion( and placement), form & construction, and value?
Do Sycra Yasin's videos and Dorian Iten's short tutorials suffice for those fundamentals for now?
Perhaps, I shall try salvaging introductory materials for those fundamentals from Sycra's videos for beginners.
Last edited by tokigami.kineko on Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

 

Postby Josephcow » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:46 am

User avatar
  Josephcow
Posts: 821
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:46 pm

You might be getting ahead of yourself. It might take you the amount of time to learn to draw that you've specified, or it might be more. It probably wont be less. But you can't know that right now.

Worrying about how much time you "allowed" is really unhealthy. it will lead you to this constant feeling of time slipping away, and thinking "am I good enough yet? am i good enough yet?" I hate to sound like a cheeseball, but Art is a journey. You're at the beginning, and you're already thinking of the fastest way to get to the ending.

I like your current plan. You have all the resources you need right now. You really do. What you need to do is make drawings! That's how you get better. You try, you fail, you learn.

 

Postby tokigami.kineko » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:39 am

  
tokigami.kineko

Josephcow wrote:You might be getting ahead of yourself. It might take you the amount of time to learn to draw that you've specified, or it might be more. It probably wont be less. But you can't know that right now.

Worrying about how much time you "allowed" is really unhealthy. it will lead you to this constant feeling of time slipping away, and thinking "am I good enough yet? am i good enough yet?" I hate to sound like a cheeseball, but Art is a journey. You're at the beginning, and you're already thinking of the fastest way to get to the ending.

I like your current plan. You have all the resources you need right now. You really do. What you need to do is make drawings! That's how you get better. You try, you fail, you learn.


I checked my curriculum again. It is actually quite comprehensive although I will probably need to fill in gaps later. I'm good to go.

Thanks for support. This community has been very helpful.


Return to Art Questions and Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

cron