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Postby Kam » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:00 pm

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Subject title: Old habits returning when switching mediums.

I've had this problem for a long time now and I'm wondering if anyone else deals with this.

Basically one of the main reasons I got into drawing traditionally more was because of it's benefits and how it trains you to not rely too much on digital conveniences to fix your work.
Like when you draw with a pen there's no way to get your marks off the page so that automatically makes you more conscious of what you're laying down, I've done that and I've learned how to go about it but I still go back to my old habits when I draw digitally, I make bad careless marks, end up undoing a lot and basically turn it into a frustrating and not so pleasant experience overall. I'm not saying doing art should always be a euphoric experience with endorphins rushing through me but when frustration adds up it leads to problems like procrastination which has been my problem for years at this point.

I know that I should try to be more conscious and apply the same mindset when I work digitally but it's proven to be incredibly difficult for me and it's holding me back from doing art most of the time, most of the time I kinda give up and for the sake of doing something so I don't have a "zero day" I go do some studies, which I'm also aware I've kinda made traditional drawing mostly exclusive to studies and digital almost entirely exclusive for making things now. I usually save my attempts at more polished things digitally because I can fix and alter things more easily and I'm fine with using the tools to correct myself but being sloppy isn't really excusable in any case.

tl; dr I've gotten too comfortable with traditional and what I do with it and I have a hard time transitioning to a decent balance both between study vs application and digital vs traditional.

 

Postby svarn » Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:49 pm

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I have a little bit of an opposite problem. I like the sloppiness of digital, I like the fact that if "I don't know" then I can just place the mark on the page and see how it looks. I find it freeing that I can experiment with no consequences.
It also makes my traditional art horrible and a "frustrating experience". lol
But honestly I don't think any of this is the reason for procrastination. From my experience that's a little bit more complicated topic, you can remove all the reasons and ways to procrastinate and you'll still find yourself looking at the wall just so you don't have to draw what you don't want to draw.

 

Postby Kam » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:56 pm

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I see, interesting. I guess it's really just a matter of mileage at the end in terms of how comfortable you are with what medium.
It probably doesn't but I'm just trying to figure out what my problems are, I've just hit a point where I'm not sure what to do, I'm having a hard time progressing and more often than not I find myself procrastinating.
anyway thanks for the reply.

 

Postby Moe » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:20 pm

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I don't think what you're experiencing is necessarily a "bad thing". With traditional, you don't have the multitude of options to correct and refine you work as you do with digital. With digital, you can zoom in and zoom out, undo mistakes instantly, flip your canvas, and with that you can SEE your mistakes more easily and also correct them easier. And as a result of all those options, you're more likely to work slower and take your time. Of course, with traditional you can utilize a mirror to refresh your eyes, but I doubt most people will do that.

The only thing that comes to my mind in terms of recommendation is perhaps switching things up. Maybe you can try doing quick sketches like gestures and anatomy studies digitally, and that may loosen you up more. Vice versa, you can try finishing your work traditionally, maybe grab some markers or some paint(granted this cost more, if money is an issue for you) and that may help facilitate your workflow.

Either way, you seem to be doing fine in my opinion lol. Good luck.

 

Postby Kam » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:09 pm

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Moe wrote:I don't think what you're experiencing is necessarily a "bad thing". With traditional, you don't have the multitude of options to correct and refine you work as you do with digital. With digital, you can zoom in and zoom out, undo mistakes instantly, flip your canvas, and with that you can SEE your mistakes more easily and also correct them easier. And as a result of all those options, you're more likely to work slower and take your time. Of course, with traditional you can utilize a mirror to refresh your eyes, but I doubt most people will do that.

The only thing that comes to my mind in terms of recommendation is perhaps switching things up. Maybe you can try doing quick sketches like gestures and anatomy studies digitally, and that may loosen you up more. Vice versa, you can try finishing your work traditionally, maybe grab some markers or some paint(granted this cost more, if money is an issue for you) and that may help facilitate your workflow.

Either way, you seem to be doing fine in my opinion lol. Good luck.

the main reason I got into the mindset of "digital is better for more finished stuff" is exactly the ability to endlessly refine but thing is I was just constantly making bad decisions, I tried to get more comfortable with it recently and the issues are slowly (very slowly) going away, I just find it odd how it's like my brain just switches modes with digital and I think that's all because of the separation I made with mostly doing practice stuff traditionally and "application" stuff digitally. As you said switching it up is probably one of the best things I could do to get over this.
I did actually sign up for an oil painting class recently, that'll help too hopefully, thanks.

 

Postby Ambiguity » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:52 am

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I think you should learn to be ok with digital being digital. I mean if you spent most of your life working in oil pastels and suddenly wanted to switch to watercolor paints, you'd likely feel like a fish out of water(no pun intended) because although the fundamentals are the same, the mediums necessarily need to have a different process to get to a similar result in each. And even then, you may not want a similar result, you might want the cool randomness you can get from letting the water push the paint around any which way it wants, a randomness which you can't get without letting watercolor be watercolor.

I don't know what type of equipment you're using, but I can tell you I've been using my Intuos4 tablet since 2009, and before that I used pencil and paper exclusively. In the 10 years of using the tablet, not once have the 2 mediums felt remotely the same, the tablet is basically a glorified mouse after all. I find that although I can't ctrl+alt+z my way out of a problem in pencil, I'm also much more accurate in pencil simply because it's a 1:1 experience with the hand-eye coordination, and the increased drag from the paper texture helps stablize long strokes. With digital, I still cannot for the life of me place the line where I want it to go on the first try(or even the next few usually), but I can at least redo the line non-destructively as many time as it takes to finally get it in the ballpark of where I want it. My point in all this being, I'm sloppy in digital too, but not for lack of trying, but I kind of allow myself to lean into it when it comes to painting because I feel the result is more interesting to me than your typical ultra clean, Artgerm type paintings. Nails, and wood glues accomplish similar jobs, but in different ways, just let your tools be the tools they are.

 

Postby Oli » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:00 am

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Ambiguity wrote:I think you should learn to be ok with digital being digital. I mean if you spent most of your life working in oil pastels and suddenly wanted to switch to watercolor paints, you'd likely feel like a fish out of water(no pun intended) because although the fundamentals are the same, the mediums necessarily need to have a different process to get to a similar result in each. And even then, you may not want a similar result, you might want the cool randomness you can get from letting the water push the paint around any which way it wants, a randomness which you can't get without letting watercolor be watercolor.

I don't know what type of equipment you're using, but I can tell you I've been using my Intuos4 tablet since 2009, and before that I used pencil and paper exclusively. In the 10 years of using the tablet, not once have the 2 mediums felt remotely the same, the tablet is basically a glorified mouse after all. I find that although I can't ctrl+alt+z my way out of a problem in pencil, I'm also much more accurate in pencil simply because it's a 1:1 experience with the hand-eye coordination, and the increased drag from the paper texture helps stablize long strokes. With digital, I still cannot for the life of me place the line where I want it to go on the first try(or even the next few usually), but I can at least redo the line non-destructively as many time as it takes to finally get it in the ballpark of where I want it. My point in all this being, I'm sloppy in digital too, but not for lack of trying, but I kind of allow myself to lean into it when it comes to painting because I feel the result is more interesting to me than your typical ultra clean, Artgerm type paintings. Nails, and wood glues accomplish similar jobs, but in different ways, just let your tools be the tools they are.


Second that. Well said!
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Postby Kam » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:23 am

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Ambiguity wrote:I think you should learn to be ok with digital being digital. I mean if you spent most of your life working in oil pastels and suddenly wanted to switch to watercolor paints, you'd likely feel like a fish out of water(no pun intended) because although the fundamentals are the same, the mediums necessarily need to have a different process to get to a similar result in each. And even then, you may not want a similar result, you might want the cool randomness you can get from letting the water push the paint around any which way it wants, a randomness which you can't get without letting watercolor be watercolor.

I don't know what type of equipment you're using, but I can tell you I've been using my Intuos4 tablet since 2009, and before that I used pencil and paper exclusively. In the 10 years of using the tablet, not once have the 2 mediums felt remotely the same, the tablet is basically a glorified mouse after all. I find that although I can't ctrl+alt+z my way out of a problem in pencil, I'm also much more accurate in pencil simply because it's a 1:1 experience with the hand-eye coordination, and the increased drag from the paper texture helps stablize long strokes. With digital, I still cannot for the life of me place the line where I want it to go on the first try(or even the next few usually), but I can at least redo the line non-destructively as many time as it takes to finally get it in the ballpark of where I want it. My point in all this being, I'm sloppy in digital too, but not for lack of trying, but I kind of allow myself to lean into it when it comes to painting because I feel the result is more interesting to me than your typical ultra clean, Artgerm type paintings. Nails, and wood glues accomplish similar jobs, but in different ways, just let your tools be the tools they are.

You're right, I'm always bogged down by thoughts like this but yeah, I guess it can't be helped that it's just something different and I'll have to accept that.
it seems like at the end when you switch mediums all you can really carry over are the fundamental knowledge and not much in terms of the techniques or specific ways of working, I kinda realized that even more trying traditional painting.
thanks for sharing that lol, I can't help but always assume I'm dealing with an odd specific problem that's just me being weird.

 

Postby Oli » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:41 pm

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Just an idea: you could work traditionally in the sketching phase of your work, scan it and do the painting digitally. Thus, you will have the advantages of both :idea:
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Postby Kam » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:22 am

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Oli wrote:Just an idea: you could work traditionally in the sketching phase of your work, scan it and do the painting digitally. Thus, you will have the advantages of both :idea:

I do that sometimes but when it comes to characters I kinda need the benefit of easy adjustment, I usually have to adjust proportions and move things around a couple times until they look about right to me. but yeah I think that's a good way to go about it in general.


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