Have some questions? Want answers? Got some good tips? This is the place to ask, or answer, questions regarding art tools, and methods.

Moderators: SeaQuenchal, Ambiguity, virtueone

 

Postby tokigami.kineko » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:01 am

  tokigami.kineko
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:10 pm

Subject title: Finding drawing models in real life vs blender

I finally finished preparation of a proper work space and started learning art properly. I know it took far longer than it should.
I was learning Bert Dodson's Keys to drawing (1990).
It asked me to arrange a cylinder, a sphere, and a box and shed light on them and draw them.
It took 15~20 minutes to find them at my house and take a picture of them so that I can use them as a reference image on my monitor.
I draw on my Cintiq 22HD pen display. I was satisfied.

The book then asked me to shed strong light on a three-quarter view of a human face and draw it.
I couldn't find a three quarter view of a human face in strong light on the internet in a reasonable amount of time.
I couldn't figure out a way to take such a picture myself or have someone do it without spending too much time or money.
Frustration built up.

Now, I consider learning blender, downloading a human face 3D model, and rendering the face on a virtual ground in blender.
To use blender, I need to read a lengthy manual to a point. I'm still not sure if blender is worth my time, but I started reading blender manual.

There are a few questions I want to ask here.

  • Is Bert Dodson's Keys to drawing (1990) an ok book for a beginning artist? (I prefer PDF books.)
  • Is blender worth my time at this point? At some point, it'll be worth my time because I want to arrange 3D scenes and use them as references. I don't intend to become a 3D artist. My goal is to become a visual artist or a manga artist.
  • Is there a cheap way to find or take pictures of specific models in the desired lighting conditions?
  • Am I learning poorly? Do I need to revamp my education? I started asking this question because I often find myself stuck on trivial things like finding models and specific lighting conditions. I'm poor at material preparation.

 

Postby DarkLored123 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:31 am

  DarkLored123
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:18 pm

I think you'll be better off learning from tutorials and books that are specific to certain skill sets. For example, "Scott Robertson's: How To Draw" which focuses primarily on perspective. Tutorials summarize skill sets pretty well, and no matter how many books or sources you look at they will probably have the same information as any other type of material.

Since blender is a 3D program, it can aid you in learning perspective if you observe it well. I don't think that using models as reference is bad but other people's models might have flaws that you are not aware of, I'd recommend simply looking at projections of faces from straight angles and trying to use that as reference rather than looking for specific type of references.

You can think of a head in a 3/4th angle as a cube drawn in a 3/4th angle, which basically will make the corner of the cube visible to you. Learning basic forms and perspective will make this a bit easier to understand.

If I were you I'd focus on three things for the start which are, perspective, form, and proportions. You need to have a good eye for each of them in order to be able to draw anything, they are your most important tools in a sense.


https://nsio.deviantart.com/gallery/45894768/Tutorials

 

Postby Moe » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:26 am

User avatar
  Moe
Posts: 1070
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:16 am

One thing I'll add is to actually make manga/comics whatever. There are so many fundamentals of comic creation that can be easily glossed over if you just solely focus on fundamentals, for example writing and panel composition. In fact, writing is the most important thing when it comes to comics. You can salvage bad art with great writing but you can't salvage bad writing with great art. Readers will simply get bored and move on. Panel composition is also very important, if readers can't understand what's going on the page then they'll likely get bored and stop reading.
"The most important reason, the most important thing, the most important gift that you receive by taking action in the direction of your dreams is not attaining your dream, it's you growing stronger and becoming a stronger version of yourself in the process" Elliot Hulse

 

Postby tokigami.kineko » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:38 am

  tokigami.kineko
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:10 pm

DarkLored123 wrote:I think you'll be better off learning from tutorials and books that are specific to certain skill sets. For example, "Scott Robertson's: How To Draw" which focuses primarily on perspective. Tutorials summarize skill sets pretty well, and no matter how many books or sources you look at they will probably have the same information as any other type of material.

Since blender is a 3D program, it can aid you in learning perspective if you observe it well. I don't think that using models as reference is bad but other people's models might have flaws that you are not aware of, I'd recommend simply looking at projections of faces from straight angles and trying to use that as reference rather than looking for specific type of references.

You can think of a head in a 3/4th angle as a cube drawn in a 3/4th angle, which basically will make the corner of the cube visible to you. Learning basic forms and perspective will make this a bit easier to understand.

If I were you I'd focus on three things for the start which are, perspective, form, and proportions. You need to have a good eye for each of them in order to be able to draw anything, they are your most important tools in a sense.

https://nsio.deviantart.com/gallery/45894768/Tutorials


I find it funny because I planned to learn the basics of drawing from 'Keys to drawing' by Bert Dodson and perspective from 'How to Draw' by Scott Robertson. I didn't think Scott Robertson's 'How to Draw' was for learning the basics of drawing. I think I'll use tutorials as supplementary materials, but not as main materials because tutorials focus on small skills, and I don't know about drawing well enough to divide drawing into small skill sets. I'm not sure if skipping the basics of drawing is a good idea because I don't know drawing well. If you knew a better system of learning to draw, I would want to know. Perhaps, is it ok to ditch 'Keys to drawing' by Bert Dodson and learn the basics of drawing and perspective from 'How to Draw' by Scott Robertson and learn more about perspective from some other supplementary materials?

I watched sycra's fundamentals of art which formed the main framework of my customized art curriculum.

My customized art curriculum covers perspective, form, proportions, anatomy, and a few other things.

It's ok for other people's human face models to have some flaws because the exercise isn't about drawing human face from imagination but about capturing the pattern of light and shadow and drawing by eye. As far as I know, blender's rendering is quite advanced and accurate.
I need to shed a single strong directional light on some face and draw it. There should not be other light sources.This lighting condition is very difficult to obtain except in camera studios. I don't want to pay a camera studio 20~30 US dollars for a textbook exercise. But, in blender, this is very cheap.

Moe wrote:One thing I'll add is to actually make manga/comics whatever. There are so many fundamentals of comic creation that can be easily glossed over if you just solely focus on fundamentals, for example writing and panel composition. In fact, writing is the most important thing when it comes to comics. You can salvage bad art with great writing but you can't salvage bad writing with great art. Readers will simply get bored and move on. Panel composition is also very important, if readers can't understand what's going on the page then they'll likely get bored and stop reading.


Everyday, I set aside time for learning how to create stories. I will also learn (panel) composition and comics later. For now, I want to focus on the basics of drawing. I want this thread to be about the basics of drawing and material preparation for drawing.

I think every artist should aim high. Talking about poorly drawn comics salvaged by great story is not inspiring. If I chose to become a comics artist, I would want great visual art and great story. Right now, I am not sure if I want to become a comics artist or another kind of visual artist. I'm a visual person.
Last edited by tokigami.kineko on Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

 

Postby Moe » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:16 am

User avatar
  Moe
Posts: 1070
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:16 am

Well, I never said you shouldn't aim high. Ideally, you want great art, great panel composition, and great writing, but when it comes to comics as a medium, writing takes precedence over everything else. If you're still on the fence right now, that's fine, but once you do decide what kind of visual artist you want to be, prioritizing the skills you need the most will make you reach your goal faster.
"The most important reason, the most important thing, the most important gift that you receive by taking action in the direction of your dreams is not attaining your dream, it's you growing stronger and becoming a stronger version of yourself in the process" Elliot Hulse

 

Postby Oli » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:39 pm

User avatar
  Oli
Posts: 2614
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:26 pm
Location: Bruxelles

tokigami.kineko wrote:I couldn't find a three quarter view of a human face in strong light on the internet in a reasonable amount of time.


Well, I think you were looking at the wrong places. Pinterest has tons of ref images. Check this: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/547187423461278264/ And I don't know what you consider to be a reasonable amount of time, but I am always looking for ref images (or ideas that I can steal) online. In addition, check magazines for adds. Some of them are great refs. Plus, you might wanna check Loomis' "Figure drawing for all it's worth". You'll find a chapter on planes and how the are lighted in different situations.

When going for really life studies, you could build yourself a box to shield most of the light bouncing around (preferable a black box). All you need is a strong light source, any lamp will do here. An easy, cheap way to study light and shadows. Something like this:

Image

For everything else, do studies and thumbnails. I guess blender is not really needed...
My sketchbook | My dA | My Facebook

Life is too short for bad coffee!

 

Postby tokigami.kineko » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:15 pm

  tokigami.kineko
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:10 pm

Oli wrote:Well, I think you were looking at the wrong places. Pinterest has tons of ref images. Check this: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/547187423461278264/

When going for really life studies, you could build yourself a box to shield most of the light bouncing around (preferable a black box). All you need is a strong light source, any lamp will do here. An easy, cheap way to study light and shadows. Something like this:

For everything else, do studies and thumbnails. I guess blender is not really needed...


I can't access https://www.pinterest.com/pin/547187423461278264/
I search for reference images online before I resort to other things.

Though a light box is a great idea, I decided to learn to render objects in blender because blender would save a lot of time if I wanted to draw to references for many years.
Blender is not neccessary but useful for boosting productivity.


Return to Art Questions and Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest