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Postby Jeffrey » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:01 pm

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Subject title: dragon wip

Hi guys this is an piece i'm going to either finish tonight or tomorrow on work.
And i thought you guys might be interested in this piece :D hope you like it, critics are very welcome.
the original picture is 4k x 12k it's going on a big canvas.
dragon wip1.jpg
dragon wip2.jpg
dragon wip3.jpg
dragon wip4.jpg
dragon wip5.jpg
dragon wip6.jpg

 

Postby Jeffrey » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:03 pm

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update
dragon wip7.jpg

 

Postby Kuronuma » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:30 pm

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Looks cool so far :) Only the dragon should have some sort of a shoulder blade in my opinion and the neck looks a bit strange to me. I'm really looking forwars to see the texture on him, some scales or something :) will be great :O :)
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Postby stnkjuc » Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:50 pm

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Is the dragon around a rock? Might need more detail imo if it's a rock but looks awesome so far!

 

Postby Jeffrey » Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:01 pm

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Kuronuma wrote:Looks cool so far Only the dragon should have some sort of a shoulder blade in my opinion and the neck looks a bit strange to me. I'm really looking forwars to see the texture on him, some scales or something will be great :O


stnkjuc wrote:Is the dragon around a rock? Might need more detail imo if it's a rock but looks awesome so far!


better?
dragon wip8.jpg

 

Postby leucome » Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:32 pm

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The dragon look very promising :) !
There was something about the rock and I was not sure but after looking at some big rock pictures It seem almost all big rocks show some layers of stratification.
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Postby Williham24 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:36 pm

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The rock needs some shadow on it from the dragon, but you're probably going to add that later? Looks really cool so far :)
Hi I'm Will :) I'm 17 and I want to do illustration :)
'Paint a little less of the facts and a little more of the spirit'

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Postby stnkjuc » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:51 pm

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Are the edges supposed to be thin and smooth? Lookslike a fin to me so not sure if it's meant to be like that (I haven't seen many rocks like it)

 

Postby Jeffrey » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:14 pm

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update
dragon wip9.jpg

 

Postby Jeffrey » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:38 pm

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Done! tell me what you think!
about 9 hours of work 4400 x 12000 pixels
dragon wip10.jpg
dragon_detail.jpg

 

Postby kocab22 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:32 pm

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the only thing which pops up as "weird looking" is his neck, other than that it is perfect from my point of view. Good job!

 

Postby Kuronuma » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:03 pm

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Yea about the neck.. I think it was supposed to be like hanging skin or something? But it isn't really coming through if that is the case. other than that it looks cool. the fins (or whatever that is :) ) on his body looks sometimes a bit too perfect or something..

Oh and it would be real cool if the sparks coming out of his mouth were more prominent. this way they're only visible really in the close-up :).
Check out my deviantart! http://psycadela.deviantart.com/
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Postby alnoth » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:47 am

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it seems to me its hair is growing the other way! :shock:

the hair always grows from head towards the tail, or from the top of the back towards stomach. on your dragon it seems to be growing the other way.

(i think the "too perfect" refers to its scales)

also its grip is a bit strange, it is only touching the rock with the tips of its claws. i think for a more firm grip the fingers should grab the rock too.

 

Postby Kuronuma » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:54 am

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Oh I have the feeling that the hair is just being carried by the wind and not supposed to grow in the wrong direction. dunno though.

(Oh and thanks, scales! I couldn't remember the correct word :D oh and I meant that the scales look too symetrical, almost every one of them is the same as the other and I don't think that's how it should be. Just in case my thoughts didn't come across before :D )
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Postby alnoth » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:17 am

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size of the scales depends on the joints. where the skin bends a lot - shoulder vs chest, elbow, wrist, fingers, etc. the scales are much smaller so that the skin is more flexible.

Image

 

Postby Jeffrey » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:30 am

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alnoth wrote:it seems to me its hair is growing the other way! :shock:

the hair always grows from head towards the tail, or from the top of the back towards stomach. on your dragon it seems to be growing the other way.

(i think the "too perfect" refers to its scales)

also its grip is a bit strange, it is only touching the rock with the tips of its claws. i think for a more firm grip the fingers should grab the rock too.


It's the wind that turns the hair.
It's a bit of a mix of a Chinese dragon and a Europe one... the Chinese dragons are long and do fly without wings, so he's a bit floaty

alnoth wrote:size of the scales depends on the joints. where the skin bends a lot - shoulder vs chest, elbow, wrist, fingers, etc. the scales are much smaller so that the skin is more flexible.

Image


I did that, but not in an extreme way, cause of the amount of pixels i have and time.

Kuronuma wrote:Yea about the neck.. I think it was supposed to be like hanging skin or something? But it isn't really coming through if that is the case. other than that it looks cool. the fins (or whatever that is :) ) on his body looks sometimes a bit too perfect or something..

Oh and it would be real cool if the sparks coming out of his mouth were more prominent. this way they're only visible really in the close-up :).


I don't know how to fix the neck,but i will try.
I tried to do the mouth with flames... but it did not come out as well as i hoped,i will try to make it more "extreme"
About the scales.. i rly wanted a smooth dragon that can fly in the wind.

ty for your comments all

 

Postby Kuronuma » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:39 am

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Well I think the scales and the neck are main problems.. Also the scales on his belly should probably be different from the rest of the body.


If you look at this dragon for example the scales are not at all perfect but they look more natural to me.
Image
Last edited by Kuronuma on Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Check out my deviantart! http://psycadela.deviantart.com/
And my sketchbook viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8210&start=340 :)

Oh oh! I created my fb page! https://www.facebook.com/psycadela

 

Postby Zjacklee » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:40 am

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Hi jeff,

Good to see you around.
I like the eye of the dragon. I think your dragon could become good but it needs more work imo. So here is my critique:

- the colours seem a bit death and very plastic.

- the hairs on the dragon do seem to be growing in the wrong direction somehow. (as someone stated before) I would give them a bit more life too. some flow and shape instead of just straight forward strokes.
Even though they might be carried by the wind, the roots still have a natural direction. so it would naturally start of going in that direction and then bent the other way.

- it feels a bit weird for the dragon to not really have a belly separation. Reptiles always have their belly a bit different from the rest of the body.

- the whiskers of the dragon could have been a bit more dynamic. I understand they are being carried by the wind but somehow where they are now they feel a bit stiff.
What's going on, on the tips?(the orange glowing bit)

- the body of the dragon feels kinda flat. I can't really tell its form. (the light should give me that feeling on how to grasp this form but right now it isn't really there. it's because of the scales making a certain pattern that it gives the illusion of this having form. Painting light is also a form of illusion of course but I think that is one of the most important aspects )
Put some more work on that light and it will looks tons of better.

- the pattern shouldn't cover the body all over. that gives it a very fake feeling. Think of it this way.... patterns aren't really visible in the dark parts. (test it out. ;) ) without light to make the diffusion of light, there can't be a pattern. Right now your subject seems to have the light coming from all directions too which is a bit confusing.
But as I was saying... the pattern is mostly noticeable in the lightest parts of the subject.

- Next I want to adress how smooth the dragons body seems. Even though it has scales all over?
By adding a bit of this roughness it can also help to convey the effect of the scales

- The rock has gotten better but it still lacks some elements that could really give the rocky feeling.

Hope any of this is helpful to you. Keep working on it and I hope to see more. :)
Look closely. Can you really See?!

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Postby glitch » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:32 am

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I like how the rendering is going. I do however think that pushing the values would both increase interest and help the forms read better. If you're working in photoshop, a simple tweak with the levels/curves could surely show how increased contrast in both color and value could help you there, but I wouldn't really recommend using that as fix, unless it really does give you the colors your want, then by all means keep it.


Maybe experiment with lighting? Cool shadows and warmer highlights? But not perhaps with this sort of weather?

Things to think about.

 

Postby Jeffrey » Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:35 am

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Hi guys thanks for the tips!

Kuronuma wrote:Well I think the scales and the neck are main problems.. Also the scales on his belly should probably be different from the rest of the body.
If you look at this dragon for example the scales are not at all perfect but they look more natural to me.


I have a little texture over it now, but i do not look at other dragons.. it's a fantasy creature and i just wanted a snake like chinese/Europe dragon haha.

I added comments in between () in the next quote.

Zjacklee wrote:Hi jeff,

Good to see you around.
I like the eye of the dragon. I think your dragon could become good but it needs more work imo. So here is my critique:

- the colours seem a bit death and very plastic.

( plastic??? anyway it's cold weather so they are a bit grey... maybe i did it to grey? i made it more blue and a little bit more contrast.)

- the hairs on the dragon do seem to be growing in the wrong direction somehow. (as someone stated before) I would give them a bit more life too. some flow and shape instead of just straight forward strokes.
Even though they might be carried by the wind, the roots still have a natural direction. so it would naturally start of going in that direction and then bent the other way.

(the roots you may have a point.. but lifeless?)

- it feels a bit weird for the dragon to not really have a belly separation. Reptiles always have their belly a bit different from the rest of the body.

(that's true however it's a fantasy creature, but i added a little bit texture..)

- the whiskers of the dragon could have been a bit more dynamic. I understand they are being carried by the wind but somehow where they are now they feel a bit stiff.
What's going on, on the tips?(the orange glowing bit)

(haha i wanted to give the idea they can be moved by the dragon, a bit like feeling things insects have :D i got a little bit carried away in my fantasy there ^^)

- the body of the dragon feels kinda flat. I can't really tell its form. (the light should give me that feeling on how to grasp this form but right now it isn't really there. it's because of the scales making a certain pattern that it gives the illusion of this having form. Painting light is also a form of illusion of course but I think that is one of the most important aspects )
Put some more work on that light and it will looks tons of better.

( yeah i made more contrast.. i got a bit carried away with the weather and stuff so it got a bit flat....)

- the pattern shouldn't cover the body all over. that gives it a very fake feeling. Think of it this way.... patterns aren't really visible in the dark parts. (test it out. ;) ) without light to make the diffusion of light, there can't be a pattern. Right now your subject seems to have the light coming from all directions too which is a bit confusing.
But as I was saying... the pattern is mostly noticeable in the lightest parts of the subject.

( i know i did that in certain places.. can't you see it?? i did it more extreme now.)

- Next I want to adress how smooth the dragons body seems. Even though it has scales all over?
By adding a bit of this roughness it can also help to convey the effect of the scales

( nah i wanted a smooth slippery snake dragon :3 a bit aerodynamic , i rly like it this way but that's just my opinion... i added a little bit scale shadow in his neck and head.)

- The rock has gotten better but it still lacks some elements that could really give the rocky feeling.

( you can't rly see all the details that's in it with a 1000x 400 picture + it's behind clouds for the most part , but i agree it is a to smooth rock )

Hope any of this is helpful to you. Keep working on it and I hope to see more. :)


glitch wrote:I like how the rendering is going. I do however think that pushing the values would both increase interest and help the forms read better. If you're working in photoshop, a simple tweak with the levels/curves could surely show how increased contrast in both color and value could help you there, but I wouldn't really recommend using that as fix, unless it really does give you the colors your want, then by all means keep it.


Maybe experiment with lighting? Cool shadows and warmer highlights? But not perhaps with this sort of weather?

Things to think about.


I did some more blue in it and a bit more contrast.

Thanks guys for the tips again!
I will not work on this piece anymore..
I learned allot and i will move on! :D

here is the final piece! either you like it or not haha
dragon wip11.jpg
dragon_detail.jpg

 

Postby Waveloop » Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:45 pm

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Overall it look cool, I really like the idea.
But it just seems like it isn't quite finished yet, mostly the lighting.
And in terms of composition my eyes really want to see the rest of the dragons back, feels like the image is cropped.

but nice work.


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