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Wizard Duel

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:36 pm
by Nipponkage
It's been a while since my last post on the Critique section. But I though I'd give it a shot again. This is not the finished product buts it's the part I'm most worried about at the moment. The rest is going to be done digitally. What do you think?

Wizard Duel

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:11 am
by Total100
oh this was under critique! oh well. i posted it in your sketchbook.
also the clentched fist. i dont think its confterable to hold it palm up? i normally do it thumb up idk.

Wizard Duel

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:49 am
by alnoth
palm up is perfectly all right. think of a "YES!" moment in sports and such, or a martial arts stance.

whats a bit strange is that the wrist is at the same angle as the fore arm, the fist does not curl upward which i think would give more "power" to the pose. also the fore arm is at a "nothing" angle - it is not coming up for a power fist, nor is it going down in a relaxed manner - as it is, it seems the person is just about to donate som blood :D

Wizard Duel

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:39 pm
by Nipponkage
alnoth wrote:palm up is perfectly all right. think of a "YES!" moment in sports and such, or a martial arts stance.

whats a bit strange is that the wrist is at the same angle as the fore arm, the fist does not curl upward which i think would give more "power" to the pose. also the fore arm is at a "nothing" angle - it is not coming up for a power fist, nor is it going down in a relaxed manner - as it is, it seems the person is just about to donate som blood :D


Well she's supposed to have a pissed off expression ( or a 'don't f*** with me' expression) on her face, would changing the direction of the wrist help bring this across in your opinion?

Wizard Duel

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:08 pm
by Zjacklee
Nipponkage wrote:
alnoth wrote:palm up is perfectly all right. think of a "YES!" moment in sports and such, or a martial arts stance.

whats a bit strange is that the wrist is at the same angle as the fore arm, the fist does not curl upward which i think would give more "power" to the pose. also the fore arm is at a "nothing" angle - it is not coming up for a power fist, nor is it going down in a relaxed manner - as it is, it seems the person is just about to donate som blood :D


Well she's supposed to have a pissed off expression ( or a 'don't f*** with me' expression) on her face, would changing the direction of the wrist help bring this across in your opinion?


I can't grasp that expression at all. Either frowning would help, heavy shading from below, eyes really wide and determined or eyes slightly open are some of the possibilities that would suggest that.

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Most of these are exagerated but that's what anime is about. I think you get the idea i'm trying to pass acros on the expression.

Wizard Duel

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:14 pm
by Nipponkage
Zjacklee wrote:
Nipponkage wrote:
alnoth wrote:palm up is perfectly all right. think of a "YES!" moment in sports and such, or a martial arts stance.

whats a bit strange is that the wrist is at the same angle as the fore arm, the fist does not curl upward which i think would give more "power" to the pose. also the fore arm is at a "nothing" angle - it is not coming up for a power fist, nor is it going down in a relaxed manner - as it is, it seems the person is just about to donate som blood :D


Well she's supposed to have a pissed off expression ( or a 'don't f*** with me' expression) on her face, would changing the direction of the wrist help bring this across in your opinion?


I can't grasp that expression at all. Either frowning would help, heavy shading from below, eyes really wide and determined or eyes slightly open are some of the possibilities that would suggest that.

Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


Most of these are exagerated but that's what anime is about. I think you get the idea i'm trying to pass acros on the expression.


Yeah I realised that as soon as I posted it here. But I should be able to fix that on my computer (final getting rid of that virus)

Wizard Duel

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:40 pm
by Nipponkage
Finally got rid of that virus, meaning I now have access to Photoshop. :D
Here's what I've got so far.

Wizard Duel

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:25 pm
by Total100
nice job but it seems a bit flat, it could use more lights and darks. try to paint in in black and white and then go in with a color layer and color. nice job though!

Wizard Duel

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:25 pm
by alnoth
would changing the direction of the wrist help bring this across in your opinion?


yes, i think it would only help. expression is definitely a must tho, but i still believe the fist would help also. as it is, it does not portray anything i can think of. also i would place the feet more apart - it gives the person more solid stance, more ballance - which means, more readiness to do battle.

Wizard Duel

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:27 pm
by Nipponkage
alnoth wrote:
would changing the direction of the wrist help bring this across in your opinion?


yes, i think it would only help. expression is definitely a must tho, but i still believe the fist would help also. as it is, it does not portray anything i can think of.


There's still the face though, and isn't that the focal point for emotion in manga?

Wizard Duel

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:28 pm
by Zjacklee
Nipponkage wrote:
alnoth wrote:
would changing the direction of the wrist help bring this across in your opinion?


yes, i think it would only help. expression is definitely a must tho, but i still believe the fist would help also. as it is, it does not portray anything i can think of.


There's still the face though, and isn't that the goal point for emotion in manga?


Body language is also important. Be it anime or realistic.

Wizard Duel

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:32 pm
by Nipponkage
Total100 wrote:nice job but it seems a bit flat, it could use more lights and darks. try to paint in in black and white and then go in with a color layer and color. nice job though!


With both the background and the character?

Wizard Duel

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:45 pm
by Total100
okay. for the character, if you put it to grayscale you can see only the black and white values. a picture looks cooler with more white and black and less mid tone. the tones are mid tone (grey) white tone and black tone. what happens when you color like you did is it looks flat. you think in colors not values. im still a noob at this but it should look a lot better if you start by drawing in black and white and then go in to get color.
i did a paint over.
Image
note: i failed at teaching lol. i didnt add anough black tone in this drawing but you get the idea. it looks more appealing but then again you need it to ballance out. i made the mistake of adding to much light and not enough black. opps. but EVEN IF I have to much white it looks more alive then the past one. if you dont agree i can go in and make it better i botched it sorry.

also. the background. in perspective unless there is a huge very very steep hill roads dont just stop. they vanish into a dot called the vanishing point. all angles have to point and if stretched, vanish to that point, in this image i your vanishing point doesnt align with the person or the road, i fixed that:
Image
see here i used the shoulders (asuming they where straight) to find the vanishing point. then i saw the horizon was to low. this is how it should look like. you CAN change it around but you need to have it follow perspective rulls. the biggest rule is that the road cant just stop in dead end. it has to keep going and going and going until it vanishes.

i just finished a drawing in black and white, you can see how i used light and dark to add more value
Spoiler: show
Image

in this you can clearly see the black grey and white tone. if you still dont understand please tell me :)

Wizard Duel

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:50 am
by alnoth
the perspective on the original does look weird, but that said, theres no reason why the pathway should lead towards the vanishing point. it only leads towards the vanishing point if it is going the same direction as the camera view - that is, if it is perpendicular to the projection plane (or parallel to the camera ray).

Wizard Duel

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:15 am
by Nipponkage
I'm playing on putting a building there (this picture is harry potter themed), so that's the reason why the path just stops. Also, I'm going to add some more deals and lights once I add in the wand, just so I have a better idea, so don't worry about that. :) for one i have an idea of what the finished product should look like.

Wizard Duel

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:36 am
by alnoth
well its best to sketch it in real early on - ideally, at all times your individual pieces should have the similar level of "finishedness". here you worry about the shades and values of the cloak, while the face is a blank blob, without a hint of the background... dont detail out anything unless everything is in place. set up your composition first, then on to the next level - draw out details like folds, hair, cobbles, grass, etc., then on to values, then on to colors... dont go about detailing one part like that.

Wizard Duel

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:20 pm
by Zjacklee
Total100 wrote:okay. for the character, if you put it to grayscale you can see only the black and white values. a picture looks cooler with more white and black and less mid tone. the tones are mid tone (grey) white tone and black tone. what happens when you color like you did is it looks flat. you think in colors not values. im still a noob at this but it should look a lot better if you start by drawing in black and white and then go in to get color.
i did a paint over.
Image
note: i failed at teaching lol. i didnt add anough black tone in this drawing but you get the idea. it looks more appealing but then again you need it to ballance out. i made the mistake of adding to much light and not enough black. opps. but EVEN IF I have to much white it looks more alive then the past one. if you dont agree i can go in and make it better i botched it sorry.

also. the background. in perspective unless there is a huge very very steep hill roads dont just stop. they vanish into a dot called the vanishing point. all angles have to point and if stretched, vanish to that point, in this image i your vanishing point doesnt align with the person or the road, i fixed that:
Image
see here i used the shoulders (asuming they where straight) to find the vanishing point. then i saw the horizon was to low. this is how it should look like. you CAN change it around but you need to have it follow perspective rulls. the biggest rule is that the road cant just stop in dead end. it has to keep going and going and going until it vanishes.

i just finished a drawing in black and white, you can see how i used light and dark to add more value
Spoiler: show
Image

in this you can clearly see the black grey and white tone. if you still dont understand please tell me :)


I understand what you intended to explain Nippon here... but the point is not to add super shiny high lights all over it. it really depends on the material.
And there is a difference between the colors lightness ( called value ) and the colors greyness ( called saturation ). don't mix those 2 up.
now with that said...

It's sometimes hard to judge from the colors themselves how "grey" they really are. if the colors are the same grey, the overal look will be dull and plain. there won't be much contrast.
As for the values... that's what creates depth and form.
so the most important thing to focus on is the value and saturation. :ugeek: ( as a start )

Wizard Duel

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:20 pm
by Total100
Zjacklee wrote:
Total100 wrote:okay. for the character, if you put it to grayscale you can see only the black and white values. a picture looks cooler with more white and black and less mid tone. the tones are mid tone (grey) white tone and black tone. what happens when you color like you did is it looks flat. you think in colors not values. im still a noob at this but it should look a lot better if you start by drawing in black and white and then go in to get color.
i did a paint over.
Image
note: i failed at teaching lol. i didnt add anough black tone in this drawing but you get the idea. it looks more appealing but then again you need it to ballance out. i made the mistake of adding to much light and not enough black. opps. but EVEN IF I have to much white it looks more alive then the past one. if you dont agree i can go in and make it better i botched it sorry.

also. the background. in perspective unless there is a huge very very steep hill roads dont just stop. they vanish into a dot called the vanishing point. all angles have to point and if stretched, vanish to that point, in this image i your vanishing point doesnt align with the person or the road, i fixed that:
Image
see here i used the shoulders (asuming they where straight) to find the vanishing point. then i saw the horizon was to low. this is how it should look like. you CAN change it around but you need to have it follow perspective rulls. the biggest rule is that the road cant just stop in dead end. it has to keep going and going and going until it vanishes.

i just finished a drawing in black and white, you can see how i used light and dark to add more value
Spoiler: show
Image

in this you can clearly see the black grey and white tone. if you still dont understand please tell me :)


I understand what you intended to explain Nippon here... but the point is not to add super shiny high lights all over it. it really depends on the material.
And there is a difference between the colors lightness ( called value ) and the colors greyness ( called saturation ). don't mix those 2 up.
now with that said...

It's sometimes hard to judge from the colors themselves how "grey" they really are. if the colors are the same grey, the overal look will be dull and plain. there won't be much contrast.
As for the values... that's what creates depth and form.
so the most important thing to focus on is the value and saturation. :ugeek: ( as a start )



okay, (sorry for the bad creteque then) im still a bit confused ill look this stuff up though