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Postby barbuse » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:31 pm

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Subject title: Help for digital painting

Hi!
I'm a beginner in digital painting and I bought a wacom bamboo fun a couple of weeks ago and I started playing a bit with it.
Now I'm doing an illustration based on a picture found on the web and I need some help!
The teeth look a bit flat but I don't really know how to correct this ?!
And please feel free to critique this and give me advice if you have any :)

Here's the grey scale picture:
Orc1.png


And that's a test with colours:
Orc2.png


Thanks :)
Barbuse

 

Postby Total100 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:46 am

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there is WAY to much midtone. your need highlights and shadows badly imo.
look at the original. how much light and dark does it have? it might just be the original drawing your painting. could you link me the picture?
edit: like here. Image
there are some shadows that are almost pure black and highlights and a visible light soerce
"Art is my cooking channel, i watch it, drool over it, and hope to one day make it."
I'm Alex, I'm 12,
Here is my sketchbook= viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2900 :)

 

Postby Sin » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:30 am

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Take this reference make it black&white and go with it... don't mess with color until you have values correct, because it will confuse you very much.
First of all i belive in strong foundation, if you didn't finish your sketch correctly, as a beginner you will have a bad time (i belive you're looking how professionals do just with color and very quickly and stuff, well they have many many work behind them for to be that confident), and when you have strong foundation in sketch then go with values and then on the end go with colors, there is many tutorials on web for that, but i strongly reccomend Ctrl+Paint and Sycra stuff, because they are simple and to the point... i myself have bought 6 of ctrlpaint videos today and i'm extremly happy... but nvm. watch their basics videos... like Ctrlpaint digital painting 101 and then try to do this stuff again.

 

Postby Williham24 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:37 am

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I second what total said about the mid tones. While I don't know much about digital, when you are drawing something original (ie something you made up, like the (troll, I'm guessing) you've drawn) the old-fashioned way, there are two things I would advise.

1/ Use a reference. Not of a troll, I like how yours is unique, but of a persons face so you can approximate on your piece where the shadows and highlights will lie.
2/ Failing that, choose where on the page/canvas you want you light source and then try to visualise where the shadows/ highlights are going to be, remember, unless your light source is directly above the shadows are not going to be perfectly symmetrical. Another thing to note, while it can be more complicated, it can be more interesting and help to give your piece more depth if you place the light source in either of the top corners (or the bottom, if you're felling adventurous), so that one side of the face is more in shadow than the other. Can look pretty snazzy, but it's just a thought :)

In your piece I feel that, and I don't mean this offensively, I would always do it, you have just put shadow underneath everything, and highlight on top, without much real thought to where the light is coming from, for shadows to be cast where they are, the light would have to be coming from above, and therefore the top of the head and the shoulders should be illuminated most brightly. It can help to think of the top of the head as if it were a metal ball, and highlight accordingly.

As well as this, I understand that it isn't human, but I do think studying noses and mouths could be of some help. If you look at a nose from head on, most aren't circular like that in the sense that the nostrils are so much higher up than the bottom, and as for the mouth, he doesn't have a top lip? If this was intentional, that 's cool, but it could help to give him one, in order to put shadow around the teeth, to give them more depth.

All in all though, I think it is a very good drawing, if you take into consideration these points I think it could be a brilliant drawing, but yeah, keep at it! As they say, PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT!!!
Hi I'm Will :) I'm 17 and I want to do illustration :)
'Paint a little less of the facts and a little more of the spirit'

My bad sketchbook - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6729

 

Postby Total100 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:56 am

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btw dont be scared to but pure black and pure white for some strong highlights or shadows. they often look very good for the very strong lit drawings. not only colors can shade. black and white shadows and highlights look good in a colored image.
"Art is my cooking channel, i watch it, drool over it, and hope to one day make it."
I'm Alex, I'm 12,
Here is my sketchbook= viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2900 :)

 

Postby barbuse » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:33 am

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Thanks everyone for your useful advices :)
Yes now looking at it again I see that it needs more contrast.
Williham24: thanks :) I did a rough sketch on paper at the beginning but then went quickly on Photoshop because I did it mainly to practice the digital part of it. I used an orc picture as reference but I will definitely try with a human one next time. For the nose I did it like that on purpose and for the top lip, he doesn't really have one but I will add some more shadows around the teeth to indicate that there's the skin/lip behind.
Sin:Thanks, I watched some of the free ctrl-paint tutorials and really liked them :) I will also buy some. I also bought a book called "beginner's guide to Digital painting in Photoshop" and 2 imagineFx magazines.
I saw that some people paint directly with colours and other (as I did for this illustration) start in grey scale an then make a colour layer. What's the best to start with ? And what are the advantages and disadvantages of each method ?

 

Postby alnoth » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:20 am

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im wondering, is there a way i can get pure colors out of a reference image?

like making it monochrome is pretty straight forward, now if i want to "subtract" the values so that i am left with pure colors, how do i do that?

 

Postby Williham24 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:29 am

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Oh I see, well if you are using a reference image of what you ard actually drawing, it will be easier to use that. I simply meant that if you had drawn the Orc from your imagination it would be useful to see where the shadows etc lie on an actual face. But yeah, like I said, pick a point for your light source, and then work out where everything is going to be :)
Hi I'm Will :) I'm 17 and I want to do illustration :)
'Paint a little less of the facts and a little more of the spirit'

My bad sketchbook - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6729

 

Postby barbuse » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:38 am

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Yes, when I painted it I put the light on the top left, like a bit over the hear but I didn't actually draw it to be really accurate. So I'll draw the light source and see how it interacts with the volumes more accurately.
Thanks for your advices :)

 

Postby Ambiguity » Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:23 pm

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alnoth wrote:im wondering, is there a way i can get pure colors out of a reference image?

like making it monochrome is pretty straight forward, now if i want to "subtract" the values so that i am left with pure colors, how do i do that?
The problem is values help determine the colors, but you could do this to get an approximation of the colors:
http://www.ctrlpaint.com/film-studies-color/

 

Postby Zjacklee » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:38 pm

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Ambiguity wrote:
alnoth wrote:im wondering, is there a way i can get pure colors out of a reference image?

like making it monochrome is pretty straight forward, now if i want to "subtract" the values so that i am left with pure colors, how do i do that?
The problem is values help determine the colors, but you could do this to get an approximation of the colors:
http://www.ctrlpaint.com/film-studies-color/


Great video man. This is exactly one of the things that has me on a "coloring stop" for awhile, until I can really understand the use of colors to illustrate the mood, environment effects and overall feeling in a scene.
Look closely. Can you really See?!

http://zjacklee.deviantart.com/ that's my deviant. ^_^

https://www.facebook.com/Trplerainbow My fanpage.

 

Postby barbuse » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:13 pm

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I saw that some people paint directly with colours and other (as I did for this illustration) start in grey scale an then make a colour layer. What's the best to start with ? And what are the advantages and disadvantages of each method ?

 

Postby Williham24 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:19 pm

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I think that it would make more sense to start in monochrome (greys, blacks, whites) and then move make a colour layer. Starting in grey makes it much easier to put down accurate values, so put your shadows and highlights in the correct place. Don't quote me on that though, I'm not an expert! When I do traditional painting though, I do like to draw the thing first then draw on the areas of differing value, and this can help to place them appropriately :)
Hi I'm Will :) I'm 17 and I want to do illustration :)
'Paint a little less of the facts and a little more of the spirit'

My bad sketchbook - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6729

 

Postby Zjacklee » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:31 pm

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barbuse wrote:I saw that some people paint directly with colours and other (as I did for this illustration) start in grey scale an then make a colour layer. What's the best to start with ? And what are the advantages and disadvantages of each method ?


I think it really depends on personal preference and also the style that you are going to color the subject. I mean... for instance if you are doing art in anime style, you don't need to go hyper realistic with your values.
There are tons of other effects and color methods that it is all up to what you really want to make imo.
Look closely. Can you really See?!

http://zjacklee.deviantart.com/ that's my deviant. ^_^

https://www.facebook.com/Trplerainbow My fanpage.

 

Postby Ambiguity » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:27 pm

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barbuse wrote:I saw that some people paint directly with colours and other (as I did for this illustration) start in grey scale an then make a colour layer. What's the best to start with ? And what are the advantages and disadvantages of each method ?

Like William' said, if you're just starting out painting, working greyscale is going to help you see values better; some pros still start greyscale, and others who start with color a lot of times end up throwing a black and white filter over it so they can see the values.

Also, while I agree with Zjack' about certain more cartoony styles not really needing a value check, I don't believe you should let your current end goal stop you from learning. Maybe learning more techniques will lead you to mixing styles, or maybe you'll find you like something else more after trying it.

 

Postby Fenix_N » Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:58 pm

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Hey, this is a cool black and white to color tutorial that I found a while back. Might help you out.

http://len-yan.deviantart.com/art/black ... -334551425

 

Postby Zjacklee » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:22 pm

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Fenix_N wrote:Hey, this is a cool black and white to color tutorial that I found a while back. Might help you out.

http://len-yan.deviantart.com/art/black ... -334551425


Oh cool. I love her art. I watch her on deviant.
Look closely. Can you really See?!

http://zjacklee.deviantart.com/ that's my deviant. ^_^

https://www.facebook.com/Trplerainbow My fanpage.

 

Postby barbuse » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:54 am

  barbuse
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Ok, thanks everyone for your advices :)
Fenix_N wrote:Hey, this is a cool black and white to color tutorial that I found a while back. Might help you out.

http://len-yan.deviantart.com/art/black ... -334551425

That looks really cool :) I'll go trough it properly when I get home tonight, thanks :),

 

Postby barbuse » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:42 pm

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I worked a bit more on the painting tonight and tried to correct things. Still have some troubles with the teeth... :(
Here's the new greyscale version:
Orc_V4(levels).png


(I also uploaded some sketches today if you want to go and have a quick look at my sketchbook :) http://www.sycra.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3562)

 

Postby Williham24 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:18 pm

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This is a huge improvement! Well done man! It really looks like you took into consideration all the critiques people gave, and as a result, you can really see the difference :) I think it has way more depth, and therefore it looks way more 3d, and you have clearly made you darks darker and your brights brighter :) My only qualm is still the nose, there's something about it, I think it looks a little asymetrical, and a bit unreal? Maybe that's just me :? I don't know!?!
Hi I'm Will :) I'm 17 and I want to do illustration :)
'Paint a little less of the facts and a little more of the spirit'

My bad sketchbook - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6729

 

Postby barbuse » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:31 pm

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Williham24 wrote:This is a huge improvement! Well done man! It really looks like you took into consideration all the critiques people gave, and as a result, you can really see the difference :) I think it has way more depth, and therefore it looks way more 3d, and you have clearly made you darks darker and your brights brighter :) My only qualm is still the nose, there's something about it, I think it looks a little asymetrical, and a bit unreal? Maybe that's just me :? I don't know!?!

Thanks :) I tried my best :) I also used a costum skin brush found on internet instead of the 2 basic round brushes, I think it looks better as well. Yeah I agree, I'm gonna change it a bit. But I still can't really make the teeth look less flat.. :/ Any ideas how I could fix that ?

 

Postby Total100 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:00 am

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this looks WAY better good job. i love it. lighting and value wise i think it looks reallys good. design wise i dont really like the nose but im not the first to say that. i think the chin looks a bit crooked maybe? good job though. ;)
"Art is my cooking channel, i watch it, drool over it, and hope to one day make it."
I'm Alex, I'm 12,
Here is my sketchbook= viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2900 :)

 

Postby Ambiguity » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:35 am

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What makes you think the teeth look flat? They look fine to me tbh.

 

Postby barbuse » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:01 am

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Total100 wrote:this looks WAY better good job. i love it. lighting and value wise i think it looks reallys good. design wise i dont really like the nose but im not the first to say that. i think the chin looks a bit crooked maybe? good job though. ;)

Thanks mate :) yes I know, I need to change the nose a little bit.
Ambiguity wrote:What makes you think the teeth look flat? They look fine to me tbh.

I don't know, I just think its doesn't look as round as it's supposed to be, specialy the right one.

 

Postby barbuse » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:49 pm

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I tried to correct the nose, I don't know if there's much change but anyway:
Orc_V5.png

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